2016 events?

Originally posted by a_dowley The problem that ISAF have is that the IOC want action and interesting racing so they can sell more tickets and make more money. If ISAF don't move to more interesting and quick boats which look good on TV then sailing is dead and out of the Olympics.

Edited by Chris 249 - 18 Nov 10 at 11:14am

Originally posted by Chris 249 The IOC OPC also wants sailing to be more widespread.

Doesn't actually. What they want is for Olympic competitors to come from a wider range of countries, which is a much more modest goal.

You are assuming a model where lots of people in country X sail class Y and the best of them go on to sail Y in the Olympics. That's simplistic at two levels. Firstly you don't need people sailing in country X at all. There's nothing very unusual about ex-pats or ex-pat trained athletes representing their country in specialised sports. Think Jamaican Bob-sleigh team, for example. Secondly, if you've got a domestic sailing scene it doesn't have to be class Y. It can be something else entirely, which is how the British system works. Apart from the Laser no Olympics classes have significant GBR classes. It doesn't matter.


Edited by blueboy - 18 Nov 10 at 4:08am

Originally posted by blueboy Promotion of grass-roots sailing in less developed countries needs cheap and robust boats, which is scarcely a description of the 470.

Originally posted by gladwell Suggesting that a boat as technical as the 470 is a good option for developing countries is just a nonsense. If they were to have a two-hander then it needs to be a supplied SMOD that can be sailed by average weight people.

All good points, and I hold no brief for the 470: I've sailed them and reckon they are the sailing equivalent of supermarket white sliced bread (for those of you not in the UK this is a substance closely related to cotton wool). However in the last round I was impressed by the number of submissions from smaller countries in support of retaining the class. I haven't got round to reading everything this time so I'm rather underinformed, especially compared to someone like RG.

There is, though, no situation so bad that it can't be made worse and replacing the two 470 classes with a mixed 470 and a Women's skiff looks to me rather likely to do exactly that in terms of these issues.

I'd like to have seen the 470 class rules sorted out to make the things made more durable and the class move to a single master plug and rather tighter construction and fit out rules to seriously address costs, but if its just going to be one medal then its scarecely worth it...

Originally posted by gladwell If you read the OC report you will see that there were, I think four 470's from Asia competing in the 2008 Olympics in the mens event, a couple from Oceania and the majority came out of Europe. If you look at sailing in Oceania, you would know that the people in the Islands are struggling to get competitive in a boat like the Laser and maybe Windsurfer. Suggesting that a boat as technical as the 470 is a good option for developing countries is just a nonsense. If they were to have a two-hander then it needs to be a supplied SMOD that can be sailed by average weight people. If we could get several countries up and running from Oceania and Africa plus Asia in the Windsurfer and Laser it would be a big and achievable advance. The regional imbalance in qualification, as identified in the OC report, needs to be addressed, and is much more important than a second doublehander 470 or otherwise. Theer is also no intention to run a simplified 470 either, from what I am told by those very close to the action. RG

As Jim said while I was writing a post, not many people here are arguing specifically for the 470 as it is today.  The point is not that the 470 should be saved, but that the crewed dinghy - arguably the most popular form of adult's racing centreboard boat - should be better represented than the crewed skiff, which may be the least popular form of adult's racing centreboard boat.


Edited by Chris 249 - 18 Nov 10 at 11:57am

Originally posted by blueboy Originally posted by Chris 249 The IOC OPC also wants sailing to be more widespread. Doesn't actually. What they want is for Olympic competitors to come from a wider range of countries, which is a much more modest goal. "Wants sailing to be more widespread" is a convenient shorthand for the requirements of the IOC sports criteria paper.  Sailing lacks worldwide spread at Olympic/world ranking/qualification/world title level according to the IOC OPC, which is pretty much what was said. You are assuming a model where lots of people in country X sail class Y and the best of them go on to sail Y in the Olympics. That's simplistic at two levels. Firstly you don't need people sailing in country X at all. There's nothing very unusual about ex-pats or ex-pat trained athletes representing their country in specialised sports. Think Jamaican Bob-sleigh team, for example. Secondly, if you've got a domestic sailing scene it doesn't have to be class Y. It can be something else entirely, which is how the British system works. Apart from the Laser no Olympics classes have significant GBR classes. It doesn't matter.

I'm not assuming that - I come from a place with lots of 470 gold medals and Tornado medals and no 470 fleet and a very small Tornado fleet. 

However, the IOC seems to want Olympic- or international- level competition in Olympic disciplines to be done in more countries. About six of the IOC critieria, by my reckoning, refer to that.

The simple fact is that (whether you count or ignore Olympic classes) skiffs are LESS popular and LESS widespread than crewed dinghies.  The fact that crewed dinghies are more widespread doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Games - I don't think the Pakistani Wayfarers are there for reasons to do with the Games, for example.  But it seems that most such countries DO have crewed dinghies and they DON'T have skiffs, and therefore dumping crewed dinghies (or introducing the problematic mixed crew) will surely reduce the number of countries that satisfy IOC criterias 4,6,7, 9 and 10 for the respective discipline.  In contrast, it may improve only two or three critieria that refer to TV.

Skiffs are fantastic, but even in Australia they are only popular in one corner of the country, where they are normally heavily subsidised by club poker machines and bar sales.  Why are they suddenly going to become popular in South America, Asia, and Africa where they have basically never been seen but where dinghies are already sailed?  If they don't become popular in such areas, how do we explain to the IOC why we ignored their desire for more widespread top-level competition?






Edited by Chris 249 - 18 Nov 10 at 11:56am