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49er medal race

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Iain C View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Iain C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 49er medal race
    Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 5:03pm

My thoughts in no particular order...

I'm afraid that sailing has been a bit of an embarrasment as a spectator sport this time round.  Boring as hell for most of it and then carnage.  Joe Public simply won't understand it...and it's all down to a ridiculous venue.

I did enjoy watching the 49er race, but it was a shame that the conditions were such that it just turned into a destruction derby.  As a sailor myself I could tell how gnarly those conditions were and I was wincing at evey bear away, but for people who don't sail, or possibly don't sail skiffs, it was impossible to convey how tricky a 2 sail gybe was or how tricky it was to get a 9er to point downhill again after it has come up head to wind after a swim.  The format made a bunch of highly skilled elite sailors look amateurish in the eyes of your average footy fan, it would be the same as runners ploughing through every hurdle, weightlifters dropping every bar, horse riders demolishing a course or a track cycling event turning into a pile up with the winner being the first back on their bike.

In my mind if ever there was a case for the 49er to be developed or even replaced by a multi rigged boat that was it, and no I'm not talking 12 foot skiffs and four rigs.  So many regattas now seem to have silly winds at either end of the spectrum, not sure if this is perhaps a recent "climate change" thing or it's more historical.  After having raced skiffs for a while now I really do appreciate the fact that I can have fully powered up full bore racing in such a variety of conditions, I would really like to see this adopted for an Olympic class that is undeniably over-ragged when things get really breezy.  How hard would it be to have the ability to change down to a 29erXX rig for big breeze, and perhaps we would have seen some more enjoyable racing that would appeal more to your average bloke in the street?

As much as I enjoyed the race and think the Danes deserved it, trying to explain that the Danes who looked like Croats won because they overtook some unknown people swimming round their boat becasue they'd used the big flag sail going down the course when perhaps they should not have, even though normally they would when sailing in that direction but not the other direction of course, but of course it's all subject to the commitee decision because perhaps they should not have used that Croatian boat without checking first, even though yes of course they are all the same, is hardly the "more easy to understand format" that the whole "medal race" idea was supposed to bring to the masses is it!

Classes hammering downwind with suitable sail area for the conditions and the big flaggy sail crossing the line first is!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by oz man

so many posts on this race i dont know who to wind up first.

i cant see why some of you guys think this was a bad advert for our sport fast,dramatic,full of incident,breakages, challenging conditions, the best sailors in the world finding it difficult what more could you ask for? so some of the half boats fell over. who ever said winning a gold medal was supposed to be easy. this race will not lower sailings profile any lower than the previous weeks driftathon.

scooby your boy wants a 49er for christmas that must be like getting stabbed through the heart. it could be worse though just think he could have watched the guys trotting about on horses in the dressarge and want horse ridding lesson. that would be awful!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Oz, He's not BEEN on a Cat yet.  Hull flying might change his mind.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 5:43pm

Originally posted by laser4000

Originally posted by mike ellis

errrm, i cant find any of these protests or the information about them on the ISAF site. can someone point me in the right direction please.


Go back on page on this thread to my post at 12:44..

othewise go to the olympics section then protests and documents link on the lower left hand side...

The ISAF site seems to be unable to load on my computer. it just doesn't work. It worked yesterday, it doesn't work today, maybe it will work tomorrow. thats windows for you.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote AndersDK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 8:57pm

Originally posted by laser4000

And just when we thought it was all over...

Protest 75
49ers ITA / ES vs. Race Committee, DEN & RC requested to attend.

 

I guess the Italians are peeved, that they tactically didnt know that they sailed against the danes, but whats the problem for the spanish?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 9:08pm
HI Anders

I guess you're from Denmark?

See my post at 2:49 today - I reckon the sailors were lent on by the people paying their bills...

I'm not sure there was any tactical sailing to be had in a 49er in the conditions they experienced...


Edited by laser4000
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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 08 at 8:37am
The Italians lose the protest, so the Danes keep the gold.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 08 at 10:34am
Originally posted by mike ellis

Originally posted by laser4000

Originally posted by mike ellis

errrm, i cant find any of these protests or the information about them on the ISAF site. can someone point me in the right direction please.


Go back on page on this thread to my post at 12:44..

othewise go to the olympics section then protests and documents link on the lower left hand side...

The ISAF site seems to be unable to load on my computer. it just doesn't work. It worked yesterday, it doesn't work today, maybe it will work tomorrow. thats windows for you.

and today it loaded first time!

600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 08 at 11:33am
It seems like the Spanish are taking this to the Court for Arbitration in Sport, having had their appeal turned down.  At least, that's how I understand it from a poster on the sailjuice site.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Laser 173312 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 08 at 11:55am

Originally posted by Chew my RS

It seems like the Spanish are taking this to the Court for Arbitration in Sport, having had their appeal turned down.  At least, that's how I understand it from a poster on the sailjuice site.

So the Spanish have learnt something from hosting the 32nd America's Cup, how to go to court and bore everyone.

 

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 08 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by oz man

so many posts on this race i dont know who to wind
up first.


i cant see why some of you guys think this was a bad advert for our
sport fast,dramatic,full of incident,breakages, challenging conditions, the
best sailors in the world finding it difficult what more could you ask for?
so some of the half boats fell over. who ever said winning a gold medal
was supposed to be easy. this race will not lower sailings profile any
lower than the previous weeks driftathon.


scooby your boy wants a 49er for christmas that must be like getting
stabbed through the heart. it could be worse though just think he could
have watched the guys trotting about on horses in the dressarge and
want horse ridding lesson. that would be awful!!!!!!!!!


 




Peter Johnstone (of J/Boats fame) was one of the team that create the
49er; ask julian and he'll tell you how important tHe team was (very!).

After Peter introduced the SMOD skiff type to the world (with the OD 14),
he and a group including the world's biggest sailmaker (North) bought
the biggest dinghy builder in the world's biggest economy (Vanguard).

They then spend over 2 million US on marketing in 3 years. This included
a market survey that revealed (like others) that the average non-sailor
did NOT think dinghies were boring, but they DID think that they were
"too tippy, too complex, and too expensive".

So.....

The world's biggest sailmaker teamed with a guy from the family that
sells more racing yachts than anyone else AND who created the first
SMOD skiff type and played a big role in creating the 49er, and they paid
for the biggest marketing campaign in dinghies, and the result was that
they found that non-sailing people did NOT want to go crashing in a skiff
type.

Based on that, they made a boat that (until a corporate takeover) out-
sold all other dinghies in the world.

Put your hand up anyone who reckons they know more about selling
sailing than North Sails or the creators of the J/24, J/22, J/105, J/35, etc.
BTW, the Johnstones also sold Laser, Windsurfer and Sunfish at their
peak.

Interestingly, the world's biggest yacht builders and the biggest dinghy
builders don't get into the crash-and-burn stuff.

As far as the "show it crashing and they will come" argument - that's what
windsurfing thought, and sales are allegedly 8% as big as they were
before windsurfing got into that mindset.

Once again, the fascinating thing is that what no one from the "crashes
bring
new sailors" side has ever been able to do, is show a single shred of any
objective data to the debate. Not one, and I've been asking for it for
years....If you can't show ANY proof, you're talking BS mumbo-jumbo
IMHO. May as well try to sell sailing according to horoscopes.

If that point of view is so correct, why is 'extreme' sailing so small? Why
are 'extreme' sports so small? Stuff-all people do bungy jumping, or run
with the bulls or race cars.....most people go walking, or fishing, or play
cricket. The logic of those who demand that sailing follows SMALLER
sports down their particular dead end escapes me.

Did one of the pioneers of the SMOD skiff,
a member of (arguably) the most successful marketing family in sailboat
racing, and the biggest sailmaker in the world get it wrong, or did those
who still cannot provide ANY objective evidence get it wrong?

BTW, Peter Johnstone now sells carbon cats, because he likes it - but he
doesn't think they will appeal to the masses.






Edited by Chris 249
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