New Laser Rag

Chris, I didn't say you should buy a new boat. I didn't even hint at it.
There is a very large disconnect between the various Laser governing bodies (whose infighting is well documented) and the rank and file owner.
To this former owner the class appears highly dysfunctional. I have many friends who sail Lasers and would like to think I can make this point with them all feeling insulted. The Laser is a class where the designer launched an identical rival product, the two main builders are fighting in court, the majority of owners do not belong to the CA and racing out of class is endemic. So where is the leadership?
Contrary to the number of posts I have on the subject, I do not have particularly strong views on this. I am merely trying to point out that the widespread use of replica sails may not be the harmless means of increasing grassroot participation that it is touted to be.
Contrast this to the Solo fleet. The fundamental design is even more outdated and inferior in many respects. However, the builders and CA add huge value through their excellent work.

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by piglet Replica sails do not carry any logos and are clearly identifiable... Do you want to rethink that statement?

Peaky you are quite right... I just don't think that many average club laser sailors are either a) that aware of the commercial issues or b) that bothered by them.  I doubt 20% of our fleet are even UKLA members and I only know of one guy who bought a new, new boat in our entire fleet of 60+.   I'm sure there was a couple of others, maybe youth sailors or something, but it's just not visible.

Originally posted by laser193713 Originally posted by jeffers Originally posted by laser193713 No, well some of them may be, but that was not my point. You seem to be missing that bit! A successful business will charge as much as it can possibly get away with for any product, and laser are clearly selling a lot of sails. So maybe, just maybe, they are doing something right. In doing this thing right they are also doing all the things that I mention above to keep your investment safe and the class thriving. I don't think I need to explain that bit again. The point is, support your class, your builder and your club and they will support you. If you choose to go and buy a replica then that is fine, I never have, I like to train with what I race with. I also like to support any class and club that I join. I even go to BMW for the service on my car when I know I could get it done cheaper elsewhere, it will pay off when I go and trade it in... As a former Laser sailor (of around 14 years total) the biggest bug bear has ALWAYS been the price/quality of the sails (and general price of class specific spares). Now... I was told by a LP employee that if I called up and wanted to do a fleet deal of around 10 sails they would match the price of ANY replica sail currently on the market (at the time around a £200 per sail discount over list). So you tell me who is supporting who? If the builder was not so short sighted as to profiteer over the sail then the current situation with replicas in the Laser class would not exist. You can harp on about royalties being paid, sails being quality controlled (don't go there, I have seen huge variations in brand new Laser sails). Sure there will be a small premium to pay for having made sure the royalty was paid (or not given the current court case) plus the builder staying profitable so they can supply said boats and spares but it should be proportionate and not at a level where you alienate your market (which is what LP and ILCA have done IMO). As a former laser sailor at the top end of the national circuit I can confirm that I have never heard anyone question the price of a new sail at that level. Having done several years of national squad sailing not a single person turned up to a training weekend with a replica sail.  If the laser rep was saying that he would match the price well then that's great. How on earth can you fault them!? If in the meantime they carry on selling sails at full price and in good numbers then they are doing it right, if they sold them for less than they could get away with then they would be pretty shoddy businessmen!  I'm not harping on about any of the things you mention at the end of your post. I don't think the quality is so bad having bought a LOT of sails over the years, I have only had one sail which I wasn't happy with and they replaced it for me without question. I don't for a minute think that they alienate their market and this view is supported by the huge numbers by which they sell their kit!  Do Domino's pizza alienate their market by selling a pizza that costs them £2 to make for £16.99? That's the same sort of markup....

Originally posted by Rupert Jeffers, taking a vote was very organised! Pretty sure it just drifted in at most clubs, who were just thankful for the turnout. Funny think is, it was probably the official Laser "push" to get boats out which caused a lot of sales of replica parts as people got old boats up and together.