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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: David Henshall's article
    Posted: 22 Dec 14 at 4:34pm
The trouble with vertical bows is that it gets very tricky to fair in nicely to a flared mid section. That underside view of the D0 was not its most photogenic view, and some Merlins approach snake swallowing apple status. A spoon bow like the Bethwaite boats generally makes for easier lines from odd angles. Conversely slab sided boats like most catamarans and modern Canoes have better waterlines with a vertical bow.

Edited by JimC - 22 Dec 14 at 7:08pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 14 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by JimC

That underside view of the D0 was not its most photogenic view,

even the alleged fan boys agree with you on that one!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 14 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by timeintheboat

Boats where the bow is straight, like the Merlin and N12 and dare I say D-0 always seem to look more classy than those that do not.
 
 

the vertical stem comes from box rule development classes  where the aim is to maximise LWL : LOA 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 14 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by zippyRN

Originally posted by timeintheboat

Boats where the bow is straight, like the Merlin and N12 and dare I say D-0 always seem to look more classy than those that do not.
 
 

the vertical stem comes from development classes  where the aim is to maximise LWL : LOA 
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 14 at 8:11pm
It's all in the eye of the beholder and affected by fashion and many other factors that have nothing to do with aesthetics, isn't it? There's a very interesting snippet from the great G.L. Watson around the time of the launch of his famous near-sisters, Valkyrie and Britannia, where he says that while the sailing community had finally come to accept that a clipper bow was as good looking as a vertical stem, there was no way that anyone would ever come to like the looks of the spoon bow of his new boats. Others called Valkyrie and Britannia's spoon bow "gratuitously ugly" IIRC.

Of course, within a fairly short time the spoon bow was seen to be the epitome of beauty and writers spoke of the "Britannia ideal" because she encapsulated the perfect hull. These days we normally drool over spoon-bowed Dragons, J Classers and Metre boats.

I have to admit I like a raked bow; sure you lose LWL but as Jim points out, it makes lines easier to create and people like Frank Bethwaite say that it's drier. It's been said that beauty is created by compound curves; is a raked bow another curve and therefore inherently more attractive (as far as that can ever be said objectively)???? Is there an accepted view of the properties that make any object beautiful?

The Micro Cup development class has a little jig to measure bow angle and ensure that the bows are raked, which proves that you can have rake in development class rulesets. I have to say that one place I really don't like vertical ends is in offshore yachts. There used to be a really interesting variety of bow and stern treatments that allowed individual designers to show their own style. Now just about every custom offshore racer has the same style - a boring one! It also seems to show a missed opportunity for marketing - those who are into cars often criticise the fact that these days they look too similar so why let boats go down the same path?


Edited by Chris 249 - 22 Dec 14 at 8:17pm
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Dougaldog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 14 at 8:30pm
Chris, One of the benefits we have here is the ability to look at the vast range of designs that have been produced over time, which then gives us the ability to detect trends. One of those trends is in the interesting topic of bow profiles. You can see almost at a glance the difference between the Milne boats, Proctor, Holt - and the designers they in turn influenced.
With reference to the Britannia Ideal, it is interesting to see the part that the various developments in the rating rules had on hull design, going back through Dixon-Bate and beyond. In the stairwell of the Royal Northern and Clyde YC is a model of the yacht Oona - some 60ft long and with a beam barely more than that of a Wayfarer. Indeed, it was the loss of the Oona, along with her designer, that fired up the next raft of rating changes, all aimed at making for 'better' boats and incidentally ushering in the era of Watson and others. But I'm with you all the way of plumb bows offshore - I 'Farr' prefer the days of Bruce, Ron Holland, Ed Dubois and Ron H. Like the dinghy bows I was mentioning earlier, you could take on look at a stern and know at a glance what you were looking at!

D
Dougal H
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 14 at 8:38pm
Why do people keep trying to tell Merlin sailors how they should change, instead of coming up with something better?
Why try to change the (arguably) most successful fleet, you can only make it worse?
They account for only a few hundred UK sailors, surely there's 10,000 or so sailing other classes who might be more likely to want something new?

I don't think there's much to be had in piecemeal picking at the Merlin rules, I think abolishing the need to make real planked prototypes mght be good, but if you're going to break away from the legacy, then I'd suggest changing nearly all the rules. A bit narrower for towing, longer, lighter, self draining, no arcane limits on 'rise of floor'?
Symmetric or Asy?
21st century RS400 if you're not careful?

It's funny how a few classes get a lot of discussion on here, while other classes with at least as much development going on get hardly a mention. When was the last I14 thread? 18fter? Cherub? N12 even.
Plus all the detail development that goes into OD classes.

I guess the real discussion is more within classes?

Back to the point, I enjoyed the article.
It would be good to see similar from people with backgrounds in different classes?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote NHRC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 14 at 1:28am
I don't think clinker is an issue with a Merlin. It adds to the design aesthetically and detracts little from the performance. The lead weights make little difference, take it out and you hardly notice it's gone. Hull form has far more to do with characteristics than lead.


The biggest issue is the one design nature that has slowed development. Time to move forward and see some innovation.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 14 at 8:12am
Take the weight out of the boat and you will reduce the competitive sailors weight to below that of normal people, one of the unforeseen outcomes when the 12's did it.

Clinker has a lot going for it, it makes prototyping of new designs more practical, again the unforeseen outcome of relaxing the double curvature rule in 12's is that it was perceived that any construction required a male mould, i.e. You have to build the hull twice.  This killed off home construction, which before then represented 50% of new boats.

There is also an argument that all those corrugations make the boats stiffer.  When the 12's switched to smooth skin, it took designers a while to realise that the lands create lift and provide additional bouyancy.

Anyway the Merlins are not a development class, owners can reasonably expect that their pride and joy will not be out classed overnight by some radical innovation, whether it is reduced weight, smooth skin, winged rudders or double floors.
Happily living in the past
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 14 at 9:51am
Good posts, I agree regards the clinker in Merlins but not the statement that it is not a development class, yes the Cant Tales derivatives dominate hull shapes but you can hardly say that sail or rig development has been 'stale'.  I would guess that the amount of cash needed to get a new hull shape designed and made is what's putting punters off, rather than an inability to do it due to the class rules, just like Paradigms and DCB's are getting sold in bigger numbers in 12's, the question to punter with ~£10k or more has to ask is do I want to bet this money or buy something 'safe'? something with an uncertain lead-time or something with a reasonably defined lead-time?
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