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Is the Cadet finished?
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
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    Posted: 09 Sep 14 at 10:30pm
They may indeed Chris! And of course if either want to give up the dreams of gee-gees and gymkhana in favour of a tatty old Cadet or Mirror who would I be to complain ;-)
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 8:26am
It is terrible that you force them to ride something as old in design as a horse, KW - they have been around for millions of years.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 9:13am
I know, shocking  LOL
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about a boat View Drop Down
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People who know who I am are friends can see my FB page where pictures tell more than a thousand words.

Since sailing the Mirror it really has opened up my eyes. Sailing at the back of the HC fleet amongst the youngsters in the Toppers and the banter that they have when on the race course makes one realised what it was to be so carefree. Much more fun than sailing amongst the serious adults. I personally get just as much fun and satisfaction as sailing my old RS300 as the kids Mirror. When the time comes and they say the Mirror is not what they want then it will be time to move on. But currently is serves a great purpose.

But this should not the be all and end all. I would love to see a modern double hander that can offer all what the Mirror or Cadet does. But the biggest thing that is a barrier to starting your kids sailing is the cost of a boat. Mirrors, Oppies and Cadets can be picked up very cheaply so you can try it with your kids without too much outlay. A New design would not offer this and would be a barrier to attracting beginners sailors to that class.

Anyone who makes distain of what other peoples children are doing for their pastime and hobby is someone who should be encouraged to go elsewhere.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 9:28am
OK, so the idea of a new design in this market does make me curious as to what it needs to offer to win market share, and be fun to sail (and the word fun has to fufill a wide range of needs, as we have seen).

So, needs to be small (11 foot, like the Mirror?12 foot max, 10 foot min)
Needs to be light enough that 2 children can launch and recover, but still strong enough to withstand crash landings, within reason.
Needs to be stable, so as not to put off the cautious, but faster than the current boats, to keep up better in a club handicap fleet.
What sort of kite? Any point in an Assy in such a small boat?
Maybe an Alto style swinging bow sprit, or accept that a sym is better for a small boat?
Sit in or sit on?
Age restricted, or aimed at parent/child too?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 9:37am
sounds like a feva to me....  perfectly sailable as an adult + child combo with the XL set up.
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 478 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 11:00am
Sounds like one of those little Hobie things...405?

I only see one youth race a year these days when DYS visits our club and we have no real enthusiastic youths left. From what I observe and recollect sailing youth is  split into types. Some wish to look dashing in Zhik and have pictures of 49ers pinned on their walls while others just want to win races. Some care about fashion and kit whereas others only care about performance. Of course this is a massive over generalisation but you get my drift. 
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 11:03am
Originally posted by iiitick

Of course this is a massive over generalisation but you get my drift. 

yep- total over generalisation, some just do it because they enjoy being on the water, and off it, it provides a fantastic social life away from the mundanity of hanging out with those t**sers from school.  
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Rupert

OK, so the idea of a new design in this market does make me curious as to what it needs to offer to win market share, and be fun to sail (and the word fun has to fufill a wide range of needs, as we have seen).

So, needs to be small (11 foot, like the Mirror?12 foot max, 10 foot min)
Needs to be light enough that 2 children can launch and recover, but still strong enough to withstand crash landings, within reason.
Needs to be stable, so as not to put off the cautious, but faster than the current boats, to keep up better in a club handicap fleet.
What sort of kite? Any point in an Assy in such a small boat?
Maybe an Alto style swinging bow sprit, or accept that a sym is better for a small boat?
Sit in or sit on?
Age restricted, or aimed at parent/child too?

Not to re-open the previously over-spilling-can-of-worms, but I do see a nice business for someone able to tinker with the Mirror design, for example;

  • re-use the rig (although furling jib would be nice)
  • centerboard instead of dagger
  • simplify the hull/deck, self-draining cockpit, built-in bouyancy
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Punky View Drop Down
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Posts: 90 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Punky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 14 at 1:03pm
Hartley 12.2? 
I think this looks a decent little boat, although I seem to rememeber Rupert saying the thwart looked like akitchen worktop!
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