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Kids in sailing

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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kids in sailing
    Posted: 30 Jul 08 at 9:36am
Kids get a lot of mention in this forum, especially the drop out rate, unsuitability of boats, too much attention to squads, not enough to grass roots etc, but how do yoy guys think it should be done?

What would be the best classes to put kids in?

Where should the money be spent?

How could the squad system be better done - after all, it does produce results at the highest level?

And how can we stop them losing interest and preferring to loiter in bus stops with cans of cheap lager?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 08 at 9:46am
Don't buy them a Bic Open without purchasing a crane to help them lift it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 08 at 9:49am
We run a sucessful youth section at Hunts. It has taken a long time to get it going but the club is now seeing the benfit of it.

Asmittedly a fair few of them leave the club when they go off to University but if they come back to the area once they have finished they re join. Most of them keep up their sailing at uni where possible.

The squad system is a double edges sword (in my opinion). It encorages the kids to sail but puts too much emphasis on racing. There is so much more to sailing than racing. We have a lad at our club who was in the oppi squad, he hated it and dropped out. With a bit of encouragement we have got him back to the point of enjoying his sailing again and he is now loving the sport.

By the same token we have another lads who is in the Topper squad and loves it, he has just posted an impressive result at the worlds in fact and could go a long way if he wants to.

It is all about the fun element to start with, if they then want to race encourage it if they dont then dont push them.

As for boat, start them off in something stable (Mirror, Wayfarer, Laser 2000 etc..) and then take if from there, some will be just happy for the ride some will want to get involved.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 08 at 12:38pm

I often think that cultivating a good social side seems to be the most important, the sailing then seems to almost take care of itself (other than serious racing). Having fun with their friends is as important to them as the actual sailing itself. Even if they really enjoy sailing, if their friends are all off together having fun doing other activities they will probably ditch it and do that instead.

At clubs I've been too there is far to much of an emphisis on pushing kids into adult club racing which comes from being taught by keen racers and often having parents who race. Concentrating on fun is far more important, organise racing and race coaching for the kids that desire it.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 08 at 1:12pm
The biggest issue with the RYA Youth Squads is the number of people it takes away from grass roots sailing clubs.
We had 3 youngsters at the Topper worlds the other week who are all in the SW Zone Squad plus one who wasnt at the worlds but is in the squad. Now so far this year not only have we regularly been without these four kids for club racing but we have also been without their parents. Now for a large club its not a problem because losing 4 Toppers from your slow handicap fleet and an RS800, two RS700s and an RS500 from your fast handicap fleet is hardly even noticed, but when your from a small club with only 10 boats typically racing in each fleet it really hurts the club racing. The keen club racers get fed up with the lack of competition and some just stop turning up, others like me continue to sail and encourage others to, in order to try and keep things going but its tough and its a real challenge.
If the RYA want to be seen to be developing the sport in the UK then really they should be helping develop local clubs, not taking people away from them. Perhaps sending a coach to a club with Zone Squad Kids, once every couple of months just to see how they are developing and giving them excercises or guidance to hopefully improve them before the next visit in two months time, would be better than dragging them all off over the country and repeatidly telling them that they are all going to be the next Ben Ainslie.
If the RYA want to pick out the next BEN then by improving the local club racing the general standard will improve and a once a year visit to the nationals will give an indication of talent, not a week in, week out boot camp that the poor kids have to go through currently.
Now I started sailing at age 6 crewing for my dad in a Graduate at Southport SC, and have never been involved in an RYA squad, I have never taken any RYA dinghy qualifications on the grounds that there is no better training than just getting stuck in and doing it! I have always taken the opportunities I have been given to try different classes, and have used the experiences to ensure that I sail a boat that gives me the correct balance of pleasure and challenge and as a result Im now in my 30s sailing a boat I love, with a great passion for the sport and a reasonable work/life balance, now how many of these zone squad kids will be able to say the same in 15 years time ?

Paul

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Laser 173312 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 08 at 8:54am

I was thinking about this last night and it occurred to me that there is some similarity to the thread on charges at Weymouth. In that the squad system and sailing at Weymouth are not the same as the sport we all love and enjoy. As Paul rightly said it’s taking away from the grass root clubs.

The other thought I had is the high drop out rate is not a problem unique to sailing. I think most sports lose many teenagers who then return to the sport in later life.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 08 at 10:24pm

My first approach would be to stick then all in Toppers and Fevas, and just get them sailing laps of a very short course. No start, no finish line, no prizes. They'll develop a competition among themselves, and those that screw up won't be noticed. They'll also learn, lap on lap.

I'd concentrate coaching on the slowest, to bring them all to a comparable standard so they can all enjoy themselves together - that for me is the most important factor bar none. Sure, it's nice if GB wins gold medals, but it's far more important to have thousands of club sailors out every weekend such as we presently have. Contrast that with places like Germany and Holland where they acquit themselves pretty respectably internationally after loads of coaching and practice but have almost zero racing at club level.

Once they've outgrown Toppers, the Laser is a good next step. After the Feva, it's tricky; I guess RS500 or, dare I say it, 3000. A 29er is a step too far for most - all their attention goes on boat handling in order to survive; tactical awareness grows very slowly in young 29er sailors, in my experience.

I'd also thrust books under their noses; the keen ones, at least, will read them.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Iain C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 08 at 11:11am

Originally posted by craiggo


Now I started sailing at age 6 crewing for my dad in a Graduate at Southport SC, and have never been involved in an RYA squad, I have never taken any RYA dinghy qualifications on the grounds that there is no better training than just getting stuck in and doing it! I have always taken the opportunities I have been given to try different classes, and have used the experiences to ensure that I sail a boat that gives me the correct balance of pleasure and challenge and as a result Im now in my 30s sailing a boat I love, with a great passion for the sport and a reasonable work/life balance, now how many of these zone squad kids will be able to say the same in 15 years time ?

Almost EXACTLY the same as me...I could not have said it better myself.  But I think it's always the same...competition, competition, competition.  I see it all the time though...pushy parents re-living thier own lives through their kids, and some junior events just turn into just as much of a competition for the parents as the kids WRT specification of Volvo, length of RIB and BHP of outboard.  Young kids have enough pressures these days without perhaps the expectation of having to do well on the racecourse at the weekend.  To me it seems that we promise them that they will be the next Ben when they are too young to really understand what that means, and just at the point a few years later when they do get it, guess what, they're clearly never gonna make it so it's the Special Brew and the bus stop for them.

I'm not saying that we should not be encouraging kids into racing, but I think it's just one part of being a "boaty" person in general.  When I was a kid I wasn't really interested in racing, I'd get much more satisfaction by chucking a tent into a Bosun, sailing round the pond for a day and camping out that night. 

I guess the RYA needs to have all this Zone stuff to justify it's own existance...it needs parents to be paying thier way, and if anyone ever questions it, they can say "these kids could be our future Olympians" and of course no one would ever dare question it.  I just think that if a bit more emphasis was put on fun, cruising, maintenance, mixed in with some racing, then the sailors coming out the other end would be more grateful, rounded and multi skilled...and potentially better.  I don't remember Ellen being a zone squaddie...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 08 at 11:15am
Is there going to be more pressure then, with the 'home' games coming up in 2012?  The public will want to see 'our boys' and girls doing well on home turf.  Will that turn up the heat in the squad system?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tessa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 08 at 7:15pm

What would be the best classes to put kids in?

Of the existing 'Junior classes' The Topper gets my vote. You get a lot of feedback from the boat when you're sailing it and it's enormous fun, plus it's easy to right after a capsize. Being a single hander each child ends up with enough skills to handle a boat. And you can get two kids in together while they are gaining confidence. And (some) adults can sail it too.

Then let the kids tell you what they'd like to sail - make sure they take up offers that come their way. Once mine had learned to sail they got chances to sail in: Cherub(!), Firefly, Enterprise, 29er, Scorpion, Feva, RS200, Laser Standard, even a ++

If and when they move into a double-hander watch them sort out who's helm and who's crew (it's interesting watching that bit!). The Feva would have looked great except that it was too small by the time my kids had had enough of the Topper. So something biggger - almost anything will do, but if you are thinking in terms of RYA squads then the choices are more limited. In this case, my vote goes to the 29er, with the proviso that it's well worth getting taught how to sail it properly.

Where should the money be spent?

I think clubs always need more money, but they need man power too. There's so many clubs! It may seem as though it's the squads that take people away from sailing clubs, but I do wonder whether those people would be there anyway, if the squads hadn't spirited them away.

How could the squad system be better done - after all, it does produce results at the highest level?

By regular review and tweaking for improvement. It's already a good system, don't mess with it too much.

And how can we stop them losing interest and preferring to loiter in bus stops with cans of cheap lager?

Give them fun and friends and rewards and honours whether that's in a club or in a squad. When they are soaking wet and still smiling you're most of the way there.

Hope this helps. Tessa

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