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Wetabix View Drop Down
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Posts: 118 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Flag Signals
    Posted: 30 Oct 21 at 8:46am
I am obsessed with making the job of race officer easier, so that more people can be asked to do it and so that it is less of a chore when I have to do it. One innovation I have tried is reducing the number of flag (or light) signals required. For a club race in flat, sheltered water with only one start, how about this:

Using two flags only, a class flag and a predominantly blue flag......... 

before the start sequence        blue alone        postponed      (=AP)    two sound signals

Class flag alone, class plus blue, class flag alone, class flag down            (normal start)

after the start      blue alone          individual recall
                            blue plus class flag                       general recall

before the finish    blue alone          shorten course
                              class flag plus blue     three sound signals repeated          abandon

I have fitted our race box with an orange and a blue light and provided a box of life jacket whistles. It is now possible for one person to run a race and the sailors can see the signals from half a mile away. If black flags and the like are required they can be displayed before the start sequence as they are at the Olympics (I believe). If a committee boat start is in use I only have to grab two flags before I go aboard. If the committee boat had two rotating beacons fitted to it that would be even better.


George Morris
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 21 at 9:58am
My club has always used a single person race officer, two flags and a hooter, one toot and the 'G' flag starts the five minutes, after first minute, one toot and the 'P' flag, this stays up for middle three minutes, at the end of the fourth minute one toot and 'P' flag comes down, at end of the five minutes the 'G' flag is taken down and a long toot, flags are dominant signal, toots are for attention for distracted racers.

Edited by 423zero - 30 Oct 21 at 12:11pm
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ClubRacer View Drop Down
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Posts: 210 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 21 at 11:44am
We run a light signal for ours so it can remotely be run by 1 if needed. I was involved in the creation of it and the biggest thing I would take away from that experience is to keep everything standard. Most people won't do the circuit and this is their only chance to learn how to read/understand flag signals and inevitably you'l have to explain how it works a million times because there is nothing else they can read/watch to understand it better. 

Not only do you have to think about the sailors understanding it but also the duty team who may only do it once/twice a year

A normal start only requires 2 flags anyway, a class flag (we use Numeral 1 for first start and 2 for second) and P, swap out P for black flag as you wish. I would ditch on station flags if your start lines are shore based because I presume your transit wouldn't be run from the flag anyway. To add to this if you're looking to do flags/sounds just by one person I would recommend using poles for the flags because its easier to get it to a visible height, that way you can free up a hand for a whistle/ hooter.




Edited by ClubRacer - 30 Oct 21 at 11:47am
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 21 at 9:45pm
Wetabix system certainly has the virtue of simplicity. Of course it requires competitors to keep track of where the sequence is up to, because the same signals mean different things at different times.

How does the RO postpone after the starting sequence begins? Blue alone is a problem because blue hoot hoot is the same for postpone and for individual recall. Maybe you could add a flashing white light for allsignals other than 'routine' starting sequence signals.

Obviously the simplicity starts to fade away with multiple class starts.

If you're using lights, probably the best simplification you can do for your inexperienced RO is to automate the whole standard starting sequence. There are apps and signalling devices that you can get that you can plumb into your hooter and lights system that will run the whole sequence for you. Lord knows, if you asked Sailwave they might give you a front end to do it.

Edited by Brass - 30 Oct 21 at 9:46pm
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Wetabix View Drop Down
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Posts: 118 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 21 at 11:28pm
Blue alone is NEVER flown during the start sequence so if it suddenly appears out of sequence it HAS to be a postponement. Or you can let the sequence run and then do a general recall. Some boats will start anyway but a series of nineteen toots will bring most of them back!

Different subject: nearly all sailing instructions state that in the event of the failure of a sound signal, times will be taken from the flag. In the days when you were using a starting gun misfires were quite common but now that we have horns and whistles failures are quite rare. On the other hand in my experience with a single RO on his own flag signals are always late. My SIs say that in the event of failure of a sound signal times will be taken from the previous or subsequent sound.

Anectdote  In the mid sixties I was a Canberra pilot in Germany. In those days all briefings finished with a time check as most of us had wind up watches which were not particularly accurate. Time checks could be got from the Speaking Clock or the pips on the BBC. The Germans present complained that the (German) speaking clock was out of synch with the BFBS pips on the new fangled FM radio which was a second or two behind the Long Wave broadcast. A protracted argument ensued. Eventually our exasperated Nav Leader got to his feet saying 'Sir, there is only one time - God's time!'
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 21 at 8:01am
There's always an uneasy compromise between simplifying procedure and detracting from communication. Personally I think I prefer the separate recall flag on a stick. I very much admire the system Loch Lomond SC have - at least last time I was there with all the flags on sticks and a set of holders on every boat. Just lift the stick up on the gun, no messing with halyards, and put it in the holder at your leisure.
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patj View Drop Down
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Posts: 643 		Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 21 at 12:45pm
With an automatic box doing the times and hoots, the RO only has to do the flags. Our box starts the countdown before the 5 minutes giving time to be ready with the flag when the sequence starts.
And flags on sticks with a holder are great for boat starts from a "jaffa" where there's no proper flagpole.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 21 at 4:01pm
We are on a 10 minute automated cycle with 5/4/3/2/1 countdown lights and hooters in the system.  In the event of a general recall fleet goes to the back of the queue.  It is possible to run the system on your own ... you leave the timer and hooters running in the back ground and do the flags manually.  On a Wednesday evening happy to do the finishing times on my own, but really need a second person for Saturday racing finishing times when there may be 50 boats on the water.  Really it is the Handicap racing that makes things complicated.

There probably is a way to do the visual signals with an LCD screen in this day and age, but this is above my paygrade.
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Wetabix View Drop Down
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Posts: 118 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 21 at 5:41pm
Are there really places where there are fifty boats on the water? (Chew valley perhaps?)
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 21 at 10:05am
Originally posted by Wetabix

Are there really places where there are fifty boats on the water? (Chew valley perhaps?)

Sail at Salcombe, we had weekends this year with over 50 club boats on the water, however to be fair the average was 32 boats with an average of 16 Solos on the line.  

Ref. the original post, we have five starts at 10 minute intervals, if there is a general recall then that fleet goes to the back of the queue.  

The 5 minute gap between the start and the next class flag gives the RO a bit of breathing space.

We have a bespoke starting system developed by a club member, but the system could work just as well with Autohoot (but with no countdown lights).

I did note a few weeks ago that an older RO gave an individual recall by holding the Class Flag at a dip, fortunately the demographic of the Solo fleet understood the signal and those over went back.  It made me reflect that this was an easier way of doing things when short handed in the race box.
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