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    Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 5:54pm
despite the hype I don’t believe that main stream dinghy sailing is quite ready for foiling. Last year I put the PY returns in order. Now I don’t expect development boats to appear highly in the returns as they are all off doing their own thing. The surprise was that in the top ten the only trapeze boat (at ten) was the fireball, performance yes but not by modern Skiff standards. I appears we just want good boat on boat racing rather than spills and thrills.

This week I keep seeing foilers for sail (moths and wazps) without looking. There are about 6 for sale which seams like a disproportionately large number.

Has the foiling hype bubble burst?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 5:59pm
Have you seen the price for some of the foiling moths too....... eye watering!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 6:19pm
One of the issues, at least with Moths, is that they are a development class, and developing actively, so those who are serious about being at the top of the fleet, and can afford it, are likely to change boats more frequently than many boat owners - so there being a lot 2nd hand Moths for sale may or may not indicate people giving up, rather trading up.

Though I'd certainly agree that dinghy sailing in general is a way short of being ready for foiling - or probably ever will be.


Edited by PeterG - 01 Mar 19 at 6:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by PeterG

 

Though I'd certainly agree that dinghy sailing in general is a way short of being ready for foiling - or probably ever will be.

A lot of sailing clubs (especially inland) are way too small for foilers anyway. We have a notional PY limit of around 950 and no multihulls.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 7:09pm
Its a trend that's been growing for some time. Both the fast boats andthe slow boats have had huge drops in popularty, leaving just the middle.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by PeterG

 

Though I'd certainly agree that dinghy sailing in general is a way short of being ready for foiling - or probably ever will be.

A lot of sailing clubs (especially inland) are way too small for foilers anyway. We have a notional PY limit of around 950 and no multihulls.

Fully agree with that, foilers are not suitable for the places many sail, as above expensive, quickly outdated, fragile, you need to be the same weight you were before you discovered beer, curry etc, need a certain wind to work, require you to do pay you dues with hours on the water (not quite in tune with being able to afford one). So fantastic as they are niche of a niche....... and over hyped to the detriment of our sport


I have seen (and drooled over and chatted with the owner) one of the currently for sale foilers, the asking price is eye watering. It is a work of art and certainly has a high value but worth a fraction of that value.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Have you seen the price for some of the foiling moths too....... eye watering!
I simply can’t imagine anybody being able to afford some of them will have time to sail it
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by PeterG

One of the issues, at least with Moths, is that they are a development class, and developing actively, so those who are serious about being at the top of the fleet, and can afford it, are likely to change boats more frequently than many boat owners - so there being a lot 2nd hand Moths for sale may or may not indicate people giving up, rather trading up.

Though I'd certainly agree that dinghy sailing in general is a way short of being ready for foiling - or probably ever will be.

Still, considering other development classes un-proportionate, doesn’t explain the Waszp and what is the trade up of a €30k boat?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by JimC

Its a trend that's been growing for some time. Both the fast boats andthe slow boats have had huge drops in popularty, leaving just the middle.

Nicely put, the middle probably gives the best return on time and cash 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 19 at 9:39pm
Well said, Tink etc.

What is odd is that not many people in the media seem to be asking questions about the practicality of "hyper performance" craft. One of the French sites recently posted some information about foilers that noted their vast cost and practicality problems, from the enormous cost (1/3 of the entire price of a Figaro III is the foils!) to the mooring issues. Few, if any, of the puff pieces about offshore foilers consider these important factors.

It's also sobering to see how far out of kilter many parts of the sailing "establishment" have become in their attitude towards cost. Inflation-adjusted costs for mid-performance seahuggers don't seem to have risen since the dinghy boomtime and such classes are doing quite well. However, the boats in the middle of the foiler market seem to cost more in inflation-adjusted costs than the most expensive dinghy (the Int 14) did back in the boomtime, and vastly more than the most expensive singlehander (the Canoe) did when the sport was growing. 

Once, it was publicly recognised that 14s and Canoes and the ilk were extremely expensive craft for the few. Now the "establishment" are promoting even more expensive craft as "the future". That represents a huge move to an elitist vision of the sport in which the average person need not apply. I love high performance craft and own and sail them, but for the health of our sport the media and officialdom need to stop pretending that they are the best way forward.

The other odd thing is that (unlike the situation when the sport was growing) very few of those in "the establishment" seem to actually go out and do what they are basically telling others to do, which is to buy, run and sail "hyper performance" boats. They are telling people to do as they say, not as they do, and that rarely works well.



Edited by Chris 249 - 01 Mar 19 at 9:42pm
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The history and design of the racing dinghy.
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