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Riv View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Apr 18 at 7:34pm
Due to electrolytic corrosion my club Fevas need 3 new top masts. Leaving aside the reasons for the corrosion I rang RS and was told they don't sell top masts only whole masts with all rigging.

Cost? £493 then carriage then VAT, total cost about £1800 for 3.
I know they have to make a profit but this seems excessive. Laser sells top masts why don't RS?

Club is buying two new 16ft trainers, I feel like boycotting RS in protest.

Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 18 at 8:02pm
Can you source a simple anodised ally tube the right size and transfer the fittings?
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 18 at 8:55pm
See if you can track down spare masts from dead hulls, sailed on fresh water?
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 18 at 7:48am
Sometimes I see the mass boat makers like RS, Laser and others as having a similar model to the ink jet printer business. Sell lots of boxes cheaply and make the profit off the parts which people have to buy from you when they inevitably fail. Its a total ripoff that they are forcing you to buy new masts - sorry to hear that. My experience with the small niche builders like the team at Hadron has been the opposite - sure the boat costs more but very little then goes wrong and when it does the builder is keen to fix it often FOC.
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Posts: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Quote johnr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 18 at 8:45am
Is anyone starting to think that maybe the answer is not to kill of all the international classes and replace them with one design classes where the supplier holds all the cards.
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 18 at 9:36am
Originally posted by johnr

Is anyone starting to think that maybe the answer is not to kill of all the international classes and replace them with one design classes where the supplier holds all the cards.

Been thinking that for years!
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 18 at 9:42am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Can you source a simple anodised ally tube the right size and transfer the fittings?

This is the thing to do.
At least you can then make with the duralac and prevent a repeat occurence.
With 4 figure sums at stake, the possbility of buying plain tube and having it anodised after drilling the holes might be worth a look?

There are a couple of sellers on ebay doing anodised tube.

Also consider end-for-ending the tubes so the corroded bits are moved to the less-stressed top?
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 18 at 9:52am
Sadly that is the way it is going though. I can't think of a modern class that has the traditional model of a designer designs it, gets a builder to build a couple of prototypes then allows anybody to build them subject to a licence fee. The H2 is probably the nearest thing to that but can anybody buy the plans and build them or can they only be built by Hadron Dinghies Ltd (and I understand that it may not be viable for an independent dinghy builder to make moulds etc. in view of the low volume production)?
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Posts: 353 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 18 at 10:05am
Feva top masts are made of three nested tubes rivetted. I could have drilled the rivets out and end for ended, but the outer tube has been cut at an angle and can't be end for ended. but I suppose I could just source the outer tube.

This is precipitated by the recent collapse of two top sections, breaking in a big gust at sea. They failed due to electrolytic action between the shroud attachment plate and the spinnaker attachment plate.

The boats are about 10 yrs old and this failure is solely due to no duralac. 

I do feel that this is the manufacturers reponsibility as it is totally preventable. Incidently all of our club boats, Picos, Toppers, Bugs are all suffering from the same issue to a greater or lesser extent. In the next few weeks I will be re-rivetting all the Pico vang attachment plates on the masts, we have lost 2 Topper lower masts due to corrosion. These are £220 or so each. 

So the bottom line is that all these low maintenance boats actually have a limtted lifespan of about 10yrs, after that major failures will occur and the boat not be economically viable to repair, essentially being an insurance write off.

This will result in lots of unrecyclable plastic lumps littering the dinghy parks (I may have to cut up a Topper soon if I can't convince anyone to take it away) It's on ebay.

I will talk to the RYA and explain the position, as they back the Feva so heavily and also copy all the correspondence to the RS managment. I find that if I spread the pain around sometimes things happen. 
Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 18 at 10:44am
Would duralac really have worked where things are pop riveted? Even with anodising the slight movement will cause wear and corrosion will set in. 

I feel your pain with the unwanted expense, but, honestly, 10 years on or next to the sea, things are going to corrode. And the fact it's happening on picos and toppers suggests it's not really an RS oversight, but just typical wear and tear for this type of construction... choose another construction method / material and you'll get different but no less costly maintenance issues. 

It's a bit hyperbolic that just because the masts are gone that whole boat has 'limited lifespan'. There are still a few avenues to explore before going in heavy handed CC'ing RYA etc.

Maybe contact other clubs and see what a minimum order would have to be to make it worth RS's while. Just because they don't list them on the site, or the first person you speak to on the phone can't see them on the system, doesn't mean they can't be bought.

Or buy the whole masts and sell surplus parts on ebay / RS used parts facebook page... there's probably others in a similar situation to you, but with the lower masts. 




Edited by mozzy - 27 Apr 18 at 10:50am
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