Hiking or Wiring

   Which is better for your knees: hiking or trapezing?

Having recently had knee injury (not from sailing) and an operation to put it right I’m much more conscious of the stresses, strains and possible damage to the knees from sailing.

The affects bent leg hike v straight hiking on the knees are well documented (by Steve Cockerill and others) but what about trapezing?

On the face of it, it would seem that trapezing would be gentler on the knees, but what about those light days when you’re half in / half out with knees often full bent.  Does trapezing higher solve this problem?

Also are knee injuries more like during a major wipeout when trapazing compared to hiking

Any comments or experiences? 

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jcooper Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 16 Dec 15 Location: Hampshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 20	Post Options Post Reply Quote jcooper Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Hiking or Wiring Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 6:51am
	Which is better for your knees: hiking or trapezing? Having recently had knee injury (not from sailing) and an operation to put it right I’m much more conscious of the stresses, strains and possible damage to the knees from sailing. The affects bent leg hike v straight hiking on the knees are well documented (by Steve Cockerill and others) but what about trapezing? On the face of it, it would seem that trapezing would be gentler on the knees, but what about those light days when you’re half in / half out with knees often full bent. Does trapezing higher solve this problem? Also are knee injuries more like during a major wipeout when trapazing compared to hiking Any comments or experiences?

Do Different Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312	Post Options Post Reply Quote Do Different Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 8:06am
	I do versions of both. Hike helm and sometimes crew a two person single wire boat and helm a wiring singlehander. As a layman, non medical / physiology opinion I would say there could be lot of difference in the intensity with which you choose to pursue either technique also the class of boat would make for huge variations in stresses. For prolonged and maximum consistent righting effort I would think most would agree wiring is easier. Some classes of boat the may need more effort and stress to make the transitions from in to out and if sailing in smaller more intense waters / competition this could be an issue. Some or many will say that with proper conditioning and good technique hiking is fine. Personally I can't see that as to my mind hiking puts stresses on the knee opposite to that which evolution (walking upright) has equipped it for. Horses for courses I guess and as ever in life you can make anything as hard or as easy as you choose.

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 8:48am
	Buy a Blaze....... That's exactly what a mate has done post knee injury. Seriously though, where do you sail, as DD says I think intensity is more of an issue than the specific technique. Trapezing on a small lake is probably equivalent to doing squats for 2 hours where sitting out is more like abdominal curls (the legs are more static when sitting out). I have also damaged a knee in the last few weeks which is under investigation but was given the all clear to sail again (both by my GP and the specialist, both of whom has some dinghy experience) so I'd say go carefully and if it hurts stop but otherwise do whichever you feel most secure doing, it's more likely a twisting movement or fall will do more damage than controlled wiring or hiking.... I'm also not convinced by all of Steve Cockrells theories regarding straight leg vs bent leg hiking, given that we all do a fair bit of both. I'm sure they enable a L@sar sailor to hike harder for longer but a Laser is such an ergonomic disaster.......... Oh, and not sure I agree with DD about evolution equipping us to walk upright, not sure about knees but it did a terrible job WRT backs Edited by Sam.Spoons - 08 Feb 18 at 8:50am
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

H2 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750	Post Options Post Reply Quote H2 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 9:00am
	The Hadron H2 was actually designed almost for you in mind, it is about as comfy a boat as you will ever hike if you decide to go down that route!

turnturtle Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538	Post Options Post Reply Quote turnturtle Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 9:13am
	I think intensity is a bigger concern and agree with the comment about wiring on small, shifty lakes. There are some boats which are more ergonomic than others - not that I've sailed one, but I reckon a D-One with kite ditched would be a good option for those with knee troubles. (PY wrangling and Fuller's accusations of cheating aside)

Do Different Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312	Post Options Post Reply Quote Do Different Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 9:31am
	What do you reckon Sam, evolution or erosion the biggest culprit? 40 years ago I could regularly shoulder 50kg bags of cement / seed corn / fertiliser from off the floor; now 25kg seems enough and ibuprofen has become my best friend. I feel your pain .

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 9:59am
	Strangly erosion is not my issue, the x-rays showed no sign of arthritis in my knee. Back is another matter and it's old trauma (due to some foolish heavy lifting in my youth) causing the occasional problems I have...... Edited by Sam.Spoons - 08 Feb 18 at 10:28am
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

eric_c Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382	Post Options Post Reply Quote eric_c Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 12:19pm
	Not everybody's knees are the same. So what some random other with 'a bad knee' finds better may be of little relevance. I have some damage to my right knee which can be an issue e.g. long distance hill walking. A sail around the course hiking in F3-F4 is good for it. YMMV.

PeterG Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 822	Post Options Post Reply Quote PeterG Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 12:31pm
	Trapezing a Contender in a good steady breeze is a joy, and I used to feel very smug sailing past Laser sailors struggling upwind hiking out. However, going upwind in a Contender in a marginal trapezing or shifty breeze can be a nightmare for knees!
	Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59

Do Different Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312	Post Options Post Reply Quote Do Different Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Feb 18 at 12:49pm
	Too right Peter, ecstasy to agony.