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Who is right?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote shake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who is right?
    Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 12:19pm

Had a collision yesterday whilst sailing in a NNE F3. the course set on a tidal estuary involved setting a reach across the river crossing where other boats were beating back through the start finish line. we were on starboard reaching for the wing mark, both fully hiked 3 sail reaching. as the mark was quite tight the kite was sheeted quite tight. half way across the reach i heard a shout followed by a second shout "starboard" several seconds later. as i was on starboard i did not respond. a second or so later we were hit on our port tramp by a cat sailing to windward. there was no damage to us, but we retired anyway.
When i caught up with the other party they acknowledged that they had seen us a 100m's or so before the impact. they also acknowledged calling starboard when in fact we were the windward boat. i did not see them, so had no opportunity to avoid collision.
their boat was damaged on the tip of the starboard hull.
who's right and who should accept responsibilty?
i'll have to sort this with these guys before we can progress repairs.

Cheers Ps boat is a B14

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Pierre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 12:37pm
So they could see you easily and took no avoiding action?   Seems reasonable to me that they had the opportunity to avoid a collision and chose not to take it.
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 2:02pm

You were windward boat. You failed to keep a proper look-out. The kite being in the way is not an excuse. Sorry but it's quite clearly your fault. The incorrect hails they were making are neither here nor there. It was you, not they, who were obliged to maintain a look-out and keep clear.

Did they protest?

 

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Pierre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 2:27pm
Fair comment Stefan (Shows how much I know then).  But just as a matter of courtesy would it not have been more expedient of the Cat to avoid the collision and protest them?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 2:56pm

I think Stefan is right. I also doubt that the Cat "had the opportunity to avoid a collision and chose not to take it".

With the wind as you describe it and with the angles you describe and different speeds, it is more likely he didn't realise you were on a collision course AND you were unaware of him AND you were unable to manouvre until it was too late for him to avoid you. It certainly would have been better for him to have hailed earlier - and correctly - he certainly wouldn't gain by delaying.



Edited by Hector
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 2:59pm

It is always better to avoid collisions if you can. Repairs and insurance forms are nobody's idea of fun. People can also get hurt. Been there, done that; both the graunching fibreglass and crew being hurt in collisions.

But maybe as a cat, there weren't able to maneouvre as quickly as a dinghy? They certainly can't tack as quickly.

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Pierre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 3:12pm

Fair comment Stefan.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 4:35pm
Avoid collisions yes. 

However you were in the wrong. 
Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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CurlyBen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CurlyBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 9:12pm
The first infringement was certainly by the B14. However rule 14 says

"14 AVOIDING CONTACT

A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible. However, a right-of-way boat or one entitled to room

(a) need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room, and

(b) shall not be penalized under this rule unless there is contact that causes damage."

If they'd seen you and (presumably) realised they could be on a collision course 100m away then they surely had time to establish that the B14 was not keeping clear and still be able to avoid collision. Therefore both boats have broken rule 14, and I think that serious damage tends to result in automatic disqualification. There is no requirement for hails to be made, but they make a stronger case for redress etc.

Stefan - both boats are required to keep a proper look out!

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les5269 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote les5269 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 05 at 9:15pm
What the cat was 100m away and didn't have time or opp to avoid a collision! After two hails regardless who was right or wrong I would have thought the cat would have been doing something to miss the B14.I have capsised my boat in the past to avoid much closer collisions(Insurance claims are not much fun regardless)
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