Racing quality

So, my impression here at the coast they are royally screwing things with their relentless attack on boats like the Phantom, inland bias towards their data sample.

How are you doing?

Graeme,

I may be wrong, but it seems that you have still not grasped how to use the PY system. You do not have to use it as a bible. It is merely the RYAs best view, based on statistical real race data of what a PY for each boat should be. If your own club uses the system then it will have the ability to make an adjustment to each boat sailed there to try and locally level the playing field.

I accept that where you only have the odd one or two boats of a class, this then becomes a bit of a personal system, but if you adjust to say 50% of the difference and see how it goes, you can then start to see how it goes.

The vagueries of boat design and conditions mean your holy grail vpp will never materialise and any idea of a measurement system will quickly end up with people identifying the key factors for optimisation such that within a very quick time period only one type of boat will dominate and everyone else will walk away once they have emptied their chequebook. Attempts to close loopholes will end up with the handicap administrators being accused of favouritism by those who thought they'd successfully blown a hole through the rules and we'll end up in an even bigger mess.

I sail on a coast, with extremely different conditions to yours, we have the worlds second highest tidal rise and fall and some pretty mean short sharp chop, and the system broadly works for us just as it does for many inland clubs. There are a great deal of coastal clubs using PYS and Id be fairly comfortable saying it probably works for them to.

I admit I like the idea of having a centralised set of numbers that work everywhere, but if someone at my club gripes about their number and I see on our PYS page that its way out of line with the national figures then we'll look to adjust it. I think thats fair.

Graeme,

Craiggo is right.

Measurement based systems that produce a "one number" handicap are generally type-forming, and can be "gamed" (or as Craiggo puts it "key factors for optimisation can be identified") so that designers end up designing what the rule makers want, not necessarily what us sailors may want, and this is why from time to time they implode when the formula is wrong or out of date, while those systems that produce a 'multi-number' handicap based on different variables (type of course, wind strength that day etc) end up being so complex that people don't understand it/get bored waiting for the results to be computed.

The current PY system strikes a balance - being a simple one number system that is not type-forming and cannot be gamed, but which allows for, and in fact expects, a certain amount of variability for different types of water.

To spell it out verbatim from the PY website:

"However, the national list is based on a summation of recommendations from clubs nationwide. The list of national numbers may not be appropriate for every club individually. This is due to a number of factors including the type of boats sailed at each club, the predominant wind trends, tidal factors, size of water etc.
Because the national list will not suit every club, each individual club should develop its own list of handicap numbers from their race results".

Here's a suggestion.... if you think sea-based clubs are getting a short straw (and you may be correct that a majority of returns come from inland clubs) then do exactly what the Sail-Juice guys have done with their handicaps. Have a chat with your sea-based club, persuade them to link up with similar others on the sea to share data, and then agree together and use any adjustments to PYs you think appropriate. (Maybe even call the PY adjustment GRFY.... )

PS Craiggo.... with that tidal range I think you must sail at the very same club as my mate Jeremy, who I sailed across the channel with in his Laser 2k? How's his, er, long distance Wayfarer coming on?!!    

Well you're wrong, and like a lot of dinghy folk, no judge of human nature.

There needs to be an alternative, and controlled by the supply side of the Industry, you can't expect them to take the risks they have to, to gear up for boat production only to have a bunch of muppet consumers destroy their market through incompetence. What's happened to the Icon is ridiculous and a travesty and there are many other stupid illogical things happening due to the randomness and bias of the reporting system.

It is out dated, out moded and should be superseded by something better that cannot be allowed to change unless there is some physical alteration in the build specification of the craft.

Graeme, as Commodore at Hythe, why don't you persuade your Sailing Committee to come up with locally suitable variations of the PY scheme as other clubs do?