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Windward boat

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Windward boat
    Posted: 22 Jun 07 at 7:25am
> In both occaisions I felt this was an attempt to gain
> and keep an overlap for an upcoming mark,

I'm not going to claim any great expertise for this, but my understanding is that things like proper course only count for anything when two boats are in a rule interaction situation. You can sail in as silly a way as you like if no-one else is near...

I don't think there's anything especially controversial or even unusual in adjusting your position for best advantage when two boats do come together... Don't we all do that in mark roundings in one way or another? And in this case is there really much practical difference between putting in two gybes and coming from underneath as you do or soaking down and coming from underneath?

Edited by JimC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 07 at 12:00am

The proper corse part of the rule I find quite confusing, I have on at least 2 occaisions had an assymetric boat purposely bear away and sail below me to gain an overlap to leeward, once they have sailed into my wind shadow, they have luffed above the course to the next mark, claiming that as an assymetric boat, they are entitled to do so, as this is their "proper course". There had been no significant change in wind or sea conditions and were not dinghies, who I agree tend to heat up and soak in most conditions.

In both occaisions I felt this was an attempt to gain and keep an overlap for an upcoming mark, (bowsprit overlapped, but not boat) which otherwise due to the wind shadow they were having difficulty keeping. Forcing me above the 2 boat length circle, so they would have rights after the gybe.

Given that it was their choice to go below, and therefore sail below the course to the next mark, can they then claim that their proper course is then well above the next mark, given that if that was the case, they should have gone above me in the first place?

When I have been sailing assymetrics I have always gybed away, and then come back from below 2 boat lenghts and therefore assumed luffing rights in the same situation, am I just being too polite?

Andy

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 4:56pm
Interesting read, thanks. So rule 18 doesn't apply. I will remember that next time.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

figure out how rule 18 applies as between boats rounding a mark in opposite directions (which has happened to me at least 3 times now in the Solent)


Try Case 26 in the ISAF Casebook...
http://www.sailing.org/rrs2005/casebook2006supplement.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Or does the fact that both boats are using the ISAF rules take precidence in this case of different races but under the same rules.

RRS applies between boats racing, whether or not they are in the same race.

If you want a fun mental exercise, figure out how rule 18 applies as between boats rounding a mark in opposite directions (which has happened to me at least 3 times now in the Solent).

 

Ouch, my head would hurt...  Please spare me the pain....

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 12:57pm

Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Or does the fact that both boats are using the ISAF rules take precidence in this case of different races but under the same rules.

RRS applies between boats racing, whether or not they are in the same race.

If you want a fun mental exercise, figure out how rule 18 applies as between boats rounding a mark in opposite directions (which has happened to me at least 3 times now in the Solent).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 12:52pm

Originally posted by Ian29937

A racing yacht has right of way over a cruising yacht under the collision regs.

Not so, I'm afraid.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 12:03pm

My understanding was always

If boats are racing, whether or not they are in the same race, shared the same start or sailing the same course, the RRS apply.

A racing yacht has right of way over a cruising yacht under the collision regs. (in days gone by, a square burgee indicated a racing yacht, a triangular showed cruising)

Non-racing yachts are governed by the collision regs.

No doubt someone will tell me if I'm wrong.

Ian



Edited by Ian29937
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Can A use the colregs as the boats are not sailing in the SAME race?

OK OK, I've changed it to "entering races" held under ISAF rules
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 07 at 10:39am
Ok so some key points of the rules are being missed here but i have to go to work so il save it for later
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