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Windward boat

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WildWood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote WildWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Windward boat
    Posted: 18 Jun 07 at 11:07pm

Situation with two boats sailing the same leg of a course, both on the same tack, the leeward boat is faster than the other, approaching from asterm and becomes overlapped with the windward boat.

Previously (several years ago) the leeward boat would have had to have been clear ahead and broken the overlap before aquiring luffing rights, however this no longer seems to be the case (at least I can't find anything about in the book anyway).  Is it correct then that there is no need to be clear ahead, and leeward boats can luff from the moment they become overlapped (assuming the overtaking boat rule doesn't apply)?

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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 07 at 11:15pm
there is no such thing as the "overtaking boat rule"
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 07 at 11:58pm
17.1 If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above her proper course while they remain overlapped within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails astern of the other boat. This rule does not apply if the overlap begins while the windward boat is required by rule 13 to keep clear.

OK? To put it simply L can't luff, but if Leeward sails a hotter angle downwind than W then W has to come up to L's preferred angle and keep clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 12:09am
what jim said, if you can give a little more detail then i can explain your situ better. Alternatively if I will be seeing u at largos regatta on sat i can chat to you then?
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WildWood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote WildWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 12:40am

Originally posted by JimC

17.1 If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above her proper course while they remain overlapped within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails astern of the other boat. This rule does not apply if the overlap begins while the windward boat is required by rule 13 to keep clear.

OK? To put it simply L can't luff, but if Leeward sails a hotter angle downwind than W then W has to come up to L's preferred angle and keep clear.

Ok, that makes sense on a reaching leg.  What about when the boats are sailing to windward and the leeward boat is sailing higher and faster.  Her proper course is then potentially going to cause a collision.  Example Class 1 yacht sailing to windward came up behind and to leeward of our boat (class 4 yacht).  We're not pointing as high or any where near as fast.  Should we give way, or him?

Calum, we're not going to be at Largo this weekend - damm weddings interfering with sailing !!! Have a good one.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 6:31am

Originally posted by WildWood

What about when the boats are sailing to windward and the leeward boat is sailing higher and faster.  Her proper course is then potentially going to cause a collision.  Example Class 1 yacht sailing to windward came up behind and to leeward of our boat (class 4 yacht).  We're not pointing as high or any where near as fast. 

Unlucky for the class 4 boat. L can sail her proper course, which may be higher than W's proper course.

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Hector View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 12:38pm

Does L also have to give room and opportunity for W to keep clear as in a luff?

Also does L only gain rights once the overlap commences or more relevant, W only have to start taking avoiding action once that overlap commences? In this example, that action would probably mean tacking away - but if in doing so Ws stern swings to leeward and snags L, isn't that Ls fault for not giving room?

Guess it depends on whether L just puts her bow past Ws stern and demands immediate action or comes from further to leeward and is more fully overlapped for some time. Interesting, but if I was in the faster higher pointing boat I'd look to avoid the situation in the first place.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 2:38pm

W has to start trying to give way as soon as the overlap is established as L is only required to "initially give the other boat room to keep clear" under Rule 15. 

If L is passing so close to leeward that W can't luff clear or tack and there is a collision whilst she was trying, W can argue quite correctly that she was trying to keep clear but hadn't been given room to do so.

Ian

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WildWood View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote WildWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 6:10pm

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Unlucky for the class 4 boat. L can sail her proper course, which may be higher than W's proper course.

and the fact she has approached from astern and to leeward is irrelevant....  I think previously L had to have been clear ahead before she could call W up, but that no longer seems to be the case.  Seems strange, but I guess if that's the rules, then thats the rules.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote HannahJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 07 at 7:56pm
Scooby Simon, no overtaking boat rule?
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