Can someone explain why..

Originally posted by G.R.F. Why is it difficult to not think outside the box for a second. I.E. a Boat that's both comfortable to sit on, big folk will stay sat down longer than small folk but small folk can extend their range by wiring earlier, eventually big will always win out at the top of the wind scale but ..

Sounds like an under powered trap boat that full size people would do well to avoid!

I thought you were proposing some sort of sitting out assistance that was less than a trap, now it sounds more like some scheme to make light and heavy people equal. There have been sitting out aids before, handles to hang on to in old 14's, planks before the sliding seat, etc. Hiking and trapezing have stood the test of time because they work!

The nearest thing to your concept is perhaps the very upright trapezing seen on 49ers, where the boat is so bloody wide getting flat out is less important than being ready to run to the other side.

If you don't want to trap or hike, there is good racing to be had in keelboats....

Well as my slender experience of S/H trapeze options currently stands,
the MPS aint exactly a hiker at any stage and has a bloody great gap
between the floaty bit and the tubey bit that digs in the water on the
other side all the time. I've never tried the 700 but imagine its much the
same. Then there's the 600 I've been studying young Dan Dumberer who
despite youth, a degree of boat handling experience far greater than mine
also tends not to exactly master once the water begins moving up and
down a bit and white bits appear, so not a 'progressive' move onto the
wire he's either on it or he's in the water.

Then there are the Containers two at our club very very experienced
helms, one ex win every year since I've been watching in any condition
laser guy, the other ex laser 5000, Scorpion since the dawn of time been
sailing ever since I've known about our club, chucking themselves in at
the first gust in flat water, obviously not comfortable at it enough to
convince me I'd have any sort of easy time of it.

So that convinces me that what's needed here is a design exercise in
making a progessive boat that smooths the passage onto the wire. Makes
the leap from sitting to standing less dramatic, more gradual, less on off
all or nothing.. There are plenty of hikers around and only 4 s/h wirers if
you include the Vortex.

Maybe the RS guys need working on to make the Rs100 either or, but I'm
not sure the shape of that hull would make for easy kick out, but anyway
I hope at least y'all see the point of the discussion, most of the would be
hikers here are only hikers because there is no easy trap solution imho.

Seriously now, Pop Quiz, it's a playground there are two rides one a nice
swing, the other a bar you hang your knees over and some one beats
them to make the sensation come quicker, which ride is going to be more
popular with the kiddies?

Edited by G.R.F.

Originally posted by G.R.F. Seriously now, Pop Quiz, it's a playground there are two rides one a nice swing, the other a bar you hang your knees over and some one beats them to make the sensation come quicker, which ride is going to be more popular with the kiddies?

These kids are loving the pain option by the looks of it!

Ouch!

As I understand it GRF is looking for a fast non-trapeze boat that also has some 'aid' to take some of the grunt out of hiking. As a Star sailor I would say the star style harness is not a great solution. It tends to lock you into one specific place on the hull as the point of support and you point of contact on the hull [your ar*e] are very close together, unlike say a windsurfer harness or trapeze where you are supported a good distance from your hull contact point. This is fine on a big keelboat like a Star where rapid crew weight shifting is not of paramount importance, but I think most people would find it very limiting on a smaller boat.

What GRF needs is a sliding seat. Lots of righting moment, easy on the body but and a whole lot more forgiving than the trapeze in some conditions. Sure, like holidaying in britain and saving for a rainy day they seem a bit old fashioned, but they are well underrated as a performance aid.

PS Just bought another IC and reminding myself just what a hoot they are to sail, even for us big guys!

What about a small sail on top of the mainsail that is set on the opposite tack.  Yes, it would slow you down, but being smaller than the mainsail it would not stop you completely.  Being higher than the mainsail would give it the same heeling moment as the main, but in the opposite direction, so that there is no overall heeling moment - and therefore no need to hike or trapeze.