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Mark Jardine View Drop Down
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Posts: 1028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: You can’t be serious
    Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:58am
Erm, Mailspeed Marine are an advertiser with us and the article is marked as a Mailspeed Marine article pretty clearly!
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Villan View Drop Down
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Posts: 1768 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Villan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:51am

Can't you just tell them to do what other people have to do - "Buy an advert"?

Same for Rooster - very thinly veiled adverts ...
Vareo - 149 "Secrets"
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Mark Jardine View Drop Down
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Posts: 1028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:26am
Originally posted by JohnW

Originally posted by Mark Jardine

I think you should take a look into the theory behind this before dismissing it!

So Mark - why was this article listed under "Dinghy News"? 

Dinghy news is generally for racing reports, this stuff is clearly not legal for racing dinghies and I would think not of too much interest to dinghy cruisers.

The article suggests that it can reduce fuel consumption which is not a bad thing for power boats, but its placement in Dinghy News is perhaps inappropriate.
It could tempt the unscrupulous to buy and apply it - as the chances of being found out are minimal except perhaps at the very top level regattas.



I put it under Dinghy News as, if this works, then it would help for dinghies.

As for Rule 53: A boat shall not eject or release a substance, such as a polymer, or  have specially textured surfaces that could improve the character of
the flow of water inside the boundary layer.

So I look on the FAQs on the HySpeedKote website at
http://www.hyspeedkote.com/FAQ222.htm
I saw the point: HSK dries to a hard finish and is water insoluble.
Therefore they say it doesn't eject or release a substance, but is it a specially textured surface that could improve the character of the flow of water inside the boundary layer? I guess that's a question for ISAF. The closest I could find for this was this document on the ISAF website:
http://www.sailing.org/26708.php

Anyway, that was my thinking as to why it should be in dinghy news!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:22am
Originally posted by JohnW

this stuff is clearly not legal for racing dinghies

Is it? I can't be bothered to read the press releases, but my understanding is that surface treatments are OK provided that they don't release anything into the water.
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JohnW View Drop Down
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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 09 at 10:10am
Originally posted by Mark Jardine

I think you should take a look into the theory behind this before dismissing it!

So Mark - why was this article listed under "Dinghy News"? 

Dinghy news is generally for racing reports, this stuff is clearly not legal for racing dinghies and I would think not of too much interest to dinghy cruisers.

The article suggests that it can reduce fuel consumption which is not a bad thing for power boats, but its placement in Dinghy News is perhaps inappropriate.
It could tempt the unscrupulous to buy and apply it - as the chances of being found out are minimal except perhaps at the very top level regattas.
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 09 at 7:04am
Doesn't this stuff fall foul of Rule 53?

Originally posted by The Rules

53 SKIN FRICTION
A boat shall not eject or release a substance, such as a polymer, or
have specially textured surfaces that could improve the character of
the flow of water inside the boundary layer.


That is, if it actually works. Whilst they've published (on thier site) some trial data that looks good, what would be better would be some lab trials to show the actual effects described. I'm sure I could design an experiment using a rheometer and possibly some surface energy analysis.

One thing though- wouldn't so rightly binding a layer of water to the hull increase the mass of the boat? It doesn't matter that the mass is in the form of something with the same density as the water as far as the mass you've got to move (acceleration) is concerened? How thick a trapped layer are we talking?

I'm not saying it won't work outright- after all, look at the fuss the "sharkskin" suits caused in swimming.

Edited by alstorer
-_
Al
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 09 at 10:58pm
Don't diss it, the stuff works, I used to use some of the early generation
stuff years ago on my then power boat and racing water ski to reduce
friction.

It eventually got banned.

I researched the newer stuff and was going to apply it to the base of my
speed board project last summer, not the spray, believe it or not it can be
extruded and it has the same effect as the slimey feel you get from fish
scales.

Research regelation (the bit that makes ice slippy, and that's the theory.

But I must admit I thought it was a competitive no no in the sailing world
(especially in a One Design boat).

Edited by G.R.F.
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
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NeilP View Drop Down
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Posts: 271 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 09 at 10:41pm
I'd strongly suggest you read FB's conclusions about what surface finish is faster, which are conclusions drawn after a lot of experimentation. Then ask yourself why a hydrophilic coating would make a boat faster. Theory is all very well, but where is the experimental - or even empirical - evidence? i think it's probably snake-oil, myself, like the "magnetic" fuel conditioners the motor trade was inundated with a while back.
No FD? No Comment!
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ellistine View Drop Down
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Posts: 762 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 09 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by s.a.l.t.y

if the water
sticks to your boat wont that cause a hell of a lot more
drag? so in effect its trying to stick the whole
river/lake/pond to the hull


 


Water moves quite easily against itself.


 


Some argue that a slighly rough (say 1200grit wet and
dry) is faster than polished as a layer of water sticks
to the boat and then you have the firction of water
against water instead of water vs hull......


Ski surfaces are 'roughened' or given structure in
warmer snow when the conditions are generally wetter.
Stops the suction effect. Not sure if this is the same.

Edited by ellistine
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Mark Jardine View Drop Down
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Posts: 1028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 09 at 10:15pm
I think you should take a look into the theory behind this before dismissing it!
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