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Rule 87

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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Mar 09 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by Peaky

it would be better for someone to take the lead and create a LAZOR class, based very heavily on the Laser, but allowing freedom of manufacturer.

You can't actually replicate the Laser hull shape, there's intellectual property restrictions about that, but there have been any number of near Laser classes introduced in the past. They've all flopped dismally.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 09 at 10:03pm

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Peaky

it would be better for someone to take the lead and create a LAZOR class, based very heavily on the Laser, but allowing freedom of manufacturer.

You can't actually replicate the Laser hull shape, there's intellectual property restrictions about that, but there have been any number of near Laser classes introduced in the past. They've all flopped dismally.

Isn't the 8.1 an example of that?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 8:25am

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Peaky

it would be better for someone to take the lead and create a LAZOR class, based very heavily on the Laser, but allowing freedom of manufacturer.

You can't actually replicate the Laser hull shape, there's intellectual property restrictions about that, but there have been any number of near Laser classes introduced in the past. They've all flopped dismally.

Why should only the hull be subject to IPR?  Why not the sail too?  Or the rudder?  And isn't the Alto the same shape as a 505, but with chines added?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 11:31am

Originally posted by Peaky

Why should only the hull be subject to IPR?  Why not the sail too?  Or the rudder? 

It's a complicated area - and I'm not a lawyer but I necessarily have some professional interest in intellectual property law. It is, in general, legal to produce "spare parts" despite the original object being subject to copyright. See http://www.ipo.gov.uk/pro-types/pro-design/d-policy/d-policy -spareparts.htm

Sails would certainly be an example of a "spare part".

The law in this area was designed to prevent a supplier abusing a monopoly position in after-sales spares supply. It's common to sell a base product at or near cost but sell spares at a high price e.g. inkjet printer cartridges, razor blades, car spares and maybe even SMOD sails. 



Edited by Stefan Lloyd
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Peaky

Why should only the hull be subject to IPR?  Why not the sail too?  Or the rudder? 

It's a complicated area - and I'm not a lawyer but I necessarily have some professional interest in intellectual property law. It is, in general, legal to produce "spare parts" despite the original object is subject to copyright. See http://www.ipo.gov.uk/pro-types/pro-design/d-policy/d-policy -spareparts.htm

Sails would certainly be an example of a "spare part".

The law in this area was designed to prevent a supplier abusing a monopoly position in after-sales spares supply. It's common to sell a base product at or near cost but sell spares at a high price e.g. inkjet printer cartridges, razor blades, car spares and maybe even SMOD sails. 

Someone told me at the dinghy show that they were making fake/replica Laser hulls now ... is that true? The hull would have to be the only part that could not be considered a spare part in the above analysis ....



Edited by Guest#260
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 12:46pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

Someone told me at the dinghy show that they were making fake/replica Laser hulls now

I hope they have a good lawyer then.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 12:51pm
If they have corrected the assymetry of the laser hull is it still a laser?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 1:04pm
assymetry? Please explain
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Andymac

assymetry? Please explain

I've never come across a boat that was perfectly symmetrical in my life. I'd be astonished if the Laser was the odd one out. Its much easier in these days of CAD/CAM controlled tools, but in the old days making a plug that was absolutely fair and exactly the same each side was damn near impossible...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 09 at 1:21pm
The laser moulds have all been taken from the original mould which for one reason or another had some assymetry in it. Effectively the port side of the boat is not quite the same shape as the starboard side. Unfortunately so many boats were made from the original moulds that they were unable to correct future moulds and retain the exacting one design standards expected in the class and therefore all the boats are wonky!
Many different people have used laser scanners to accurately computer model the LASER dinghy and all show the same assymetry.


Edited by craiggo
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