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Andymac View Drop Down
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rule 87
    Posted: 17 Mar 09 at 9:24pm

Ah... the penny just dropped.

I think Jamesd was trying to establish whether a class 'sailing instruction' is transferrable to club racing as a 'class rule'?

Well then maybe not; Just as same as you can't transfer the S.I.'s from the last unrelated event to the next!...????

Have I got that right?

 

 
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 09 at 9:24pm
Jamesd: is that actually in the class rules, or is it in the standard SIs that the RS classes request of event organisers?
edit: just looked it up myself. The stuff about touching marks is NOT a class rule as covered by rule 87. It's an SI.

Edited by alstorer
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 09 at 9:33pm

In that case, I think I did get it right (in the end).
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 09 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by Jamesd

does "class rules" cover the specific sailing instructions for a class?

i.e. could an RS class hit marks in club racing?

I once had someone who was sailing an RS in a handicap event tell me he didn't need to do a turn for hitting a mark as he was sailing an RS

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Late starter View Drop Down
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Posts: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 09 at 10:09pm
A conspiracy theorist could have a field day with this one!   What on earth possessed ISAF to do something so utterly stupid?   Who bunged who!
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 09 at 7:18am
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Jamesd


does "class rules" cover the specific sailing instructions for a class?


i.e. could an RS class hit marks in club racing?



I once had someone who was sailing an RS in a handicap event tell me he didn't need to do a turn for hitting a mark as he was sailing an RS


Well, it would appear from my reading that next time someone tries to pull this one, you can tell them where exactly to shove it. Standard SIs are NOT part of class rules.

In fact, I don't think class rules CAN change RRS (but may change the ERS?).
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 09 at 8:29am
Originally posted by Late starter

What on earth possessed ISAF to do something so utterly stupid?  

If you read back threads there are a lot of arguments made against permitting replica sails in racing posted by people who haven't been bunged anything. We may be all utterly stupid, but I wouldn't bet on it if I were you.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 09 at 8:46am
Actually Rule 87 is not a new rule, it was in the previous RRS just well hidden so most people missed it.

The way round it (and this is what we do at Hunts) is to create a 'local class' (there are no restrictions on this) that uses all the same rules as class x (for example International Laser) and then have your variations. Ours is that any sail may be used as long as it is a direct replacement of the original and offers no performance advantage. The Sailing Comittee deals with any 'issues' that may arise from this.

So far we have had none. Most people use Rooster, Intensity or InSails replicas for club racing and wheel out their 'proper' sails for open events. It bring the cost of having a boat with a good sail down. A replica can be picked up for around £150 which, despite the recent deals being offered by Laser Performance, is still quite a bit cheaper.

As for the guy in the RS I would have just protested him and let the protest committee upset him by throwing him out.

Just my 2p as always....
Paul
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tack'ho View Drop Down
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Posts: 1100 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 09 at 9:11am

One thing did occur to be during the extremely long performance of 'Don't look back in anger' I endured last night.

So you produce a product, rules are introduced which prevent the use of any alternative to this product.  Only hang on a minute apparently you can by a North Laser sail or a Hyde Laser sail, both thorough Laser. http://www.lasersailing.com.au/shop/store.php?pg1-cid9.html

And both at considerably more than the cost of a replica.  So it appears we have an artifically created monopoly combined with price fixing.  All with the willing support of ISAF.....discuss!

Of course the ILA being an independent body with no commercial affiliation to LaserPerformace Sailcraft (or whatever they are called this week) will be be all over this to ensure the best needs of their members are served!



Edited by tack'ho
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 09 at 10:28am

Rather than individual clubs inventing new classes of Laser-esque boats, it would be better for someone to take the lead and create a LAZOR class, based very heavily on the Laser, but allowing freedom of manufacturer. It would be the biggest class in the world, because all existing Lasers would be class compliant, as well as all Lasers with replica sails, masts, foils and hulls.

FWIW, I don't have a problem with Laser charging highish prices for new sails. It is what keeps the costs of the boats down, leads to high volume of boat sales (new boat only costs about the same as a new sail) and pays for all the glossy ads in Y&Y.  Of course, that opens the door for cheap replicas, so market forces should balance the price of official Laser sails.

Technically, does a class need to be affilliated to the RYA to be able to race in club races run under RRS? Otherwise, at present, these quasi-Lasers should not be racing. Nor should my NS14, nor any other new class.

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