Painting Foils |
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49erGBR735HSC
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Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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Topic: Painting FoilsPosted: 16 Nov 06 at 11:43am |
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Spent 2 days fairing foils once getting them exactly perfect, well as far as I could judge only for the crew on the first outing to ding the bottom by slamming the foil down in shallow water. Got a more careful crew now and just make sure the foils look smooth and feel smooth because sod's law says the longer you spend finishing something the quicker it will get broken |
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Matt Jackson
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Joined: 21 Sep 04 Location: Darlington Online Status: Offline Posts: 962 |
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Posted: 16 Nov 06 at 1:00pm |
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Me and the missus had a long conversation about this the other night with my POV being that a rougher surface induces laminar flow and hers being that any laminar flow is killed by skin friction - actually it was more like hydrogen bonds or something but she a scientist and I'm an Contender sailor so I'd switched off long before I understood it. The outcome was that a rough surface probably didn't help much and possibly absorbed more water anyway, so go with smooth. We breifly discussed polished surfaces by I ruled this out some months ago when I slid off a recently polished centreboard and threw a race with an inversion when I could have just about won it with a quick recovery |
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Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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English Dave
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Joined: 10 Aug 06 Location: Northern Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 682 |
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Posted: 16 Nov 06 at 2:20pm |
Nothing on the telly then? |
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NeilP
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 23 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
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Posted: 17 Nov 06 at 10:58am |
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Even if your foils are designed to run laminar - and not all are, Laser for instance - they will only do so over a tiny percentage of the surface unless the finish is absolutely perfect, ie polished to a mirror finish. The rough surface induces turbulent flow very near the leading edge, so the lower drag of the laminar flow section is lost. Under turbulent flow, the surface is "scrubbed" by the fluid in the boundary layer, and this is where the higher drag of turbulent flow comes from. It goes without saying that the rougher the surface, the higher the scrubbing forces will be, and therefore the higher the drag. If you think about it, if you slide off your centreboard, the water will too! Intuitively, it's clear that a highly polished surface gives less drag than a rough one. The real world situation is complex to explain, but we don't need to explain it. Trust your intuition! If you want the absolute maximum performance from your foils, keep them scratch and ding free, highly polished and perfectly clean. This is all based on my hazy memory of my Physics degree from 20 years ago, but I also dug out Bethwaites book, and he did loads of practical experiments that seem to suggest that the performance gain is much greater than I thought it was, so maybe it's worth going to all the trouble after all. And in case you're wondering, it was work all this out or watch "I'm a Has-Been". Neil |
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No FD? No Comment!
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richardhenderso
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Joined: 02 Dec 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3 |
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Posted: 02 Dec 06 at 4:24pm |
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Intrigued by discussion on smooth v matt. Golf balls are covered in hundreds of little indentations which apparently make for faster progress through the air. Wouldn't this work with water? |
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Richard
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tgruitt
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Joined: 02 Dec 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2479 |
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Posted: 02 Dec 06 at 5:04pm |
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I still disagree, of course a matt finish foil is perfectly smooth, you still wet and dry it as much and put just as much work into it! its not completely matt, just not polished shiny. Where is Andy P to back me up....
Edited by tgruitt |
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Needs to sail more...
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49erGBR735HSC
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Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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Posted: 02 Dec 06 at 8:09pm |
From what I can remember, the indentations reduce form drag and also help the ball to spin, which in turn the spin creates lift which makes it's progress through the air more efficent. You can't spin foils on boats, so the theory won't work. Rough vs smooth is perfectly displayed if you put a surface in a wind tunnel. The flow round the smoother foils is quicker, therefore, the foil has less friction and moves through the water quicker. If you want more lift from a foil, you're better concentrating on the aspect ratio and thickness of the chord of the foil. Surface friction increases drag and slows boats down. |
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redback
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Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502 |
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Posted: 02 Dec 06 at 9:14pm |
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I was horrified to find my rudder had tiny little pimples on it. What am I doing wrong. Clearly it needs a repaint?
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 02 Dec 06 at 10:23pm |
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I think the matt finish arguement holds true compared to a gloss paint finish, rather than V's a polished surface. If you run your hand over gloss paint, you can feel it "stick". 1200 grit it and your hand slides much more easily. Polish it, and it is better still, but not by anything like as much. As for the "you'd do better spending more time sailing" argument, sand and polish the boat and foils after the sun has gone down, at home in the "warmth" (I wish) of the garage. Can't sail then anyway. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Prince Buster
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Joined: 15 Dec 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1146 |
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Posted: 02 Dec 06 at 10:51pm |
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Edited by Prince Buster |
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international moth - "what what?"
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