grafham

None of my comments are intended to be negative, more constructive, as I am sure are everyone elses.

I have also not TOLD anyone to do anything.

As i have already stated, as have many others, we enjoyed the event and would like to return next year (if invited). We are merely discussing ways which may make it even better next year!

Just to put a few things down - as I was the mug (with others) who was doing the results.  To be clear, this isn't just a Cat problem - but given the comments above about the weekend this is as good a place as any:-

1.  It never ceases to amaze me how many people entering either don't know their sail number, or when writing it down transpose the digits.  Not suprisingly therefore some people who seemingly don't exist don't get results (until they complain and we sort it out).  Add to that those who have such illegible handwriting that we get number (or names) wrong  (OK I've not exactly got copperplate handwriting - but I do make an effort when I'm entering a race)!

2.  In very mixed fleets like this weekend we ended up, for instance, with 3 boats entered as sail number 30 - in fact one was 30, one was 030 and one was GBR30 - but without that information on the entry sheets we have a hell of a time

In the handicap fleets this weekend there were about 10 examples of either duplicate numbers, or where people had put down the wrong number, or had changed sails, or seemingly hadn't entered!  Add to that those that don't read the SIs and sail the wrong course or laps (and get DNFs or seemingly silly times vs laps) and again it is not a job for the feint hearted!  Think Rubik's cube and Soduko and you'll be somewhere near.

3.  Sometimes ROs don't manage to get down on paper everyone (when there's lots of boats - that's just a human problem) - that's why we use tapes or videos in addition - but sorting that out takes time.  We in the race office score the results using the race sheets - if there are queries then we can look back and sort out - but if a boat isn't recorded as finishing on a race sheet, us mugs entering the results have no option to score it DNC or DNF (absolutely NO criticism of ROs or their crews - I know how difficult it is - but humans make human mistakes.  When we all have long range RFID tags it may be different!)

4.  We use results query forms so that a) we are not pestered in the race office when we are trying to process results, b) so that people make coherent queries and get evidence if needed, c) so that when they are resolved people can see that they have been resolved. 

Most of the queries were trivial and easily resolves, but because a change in one result can affect others it is much better this way than to have a queue of people all demanding instant gratification! 

Some queries are just plain wrong - a few because some people like to suggest they were better placed that they really were.

You wouldn't believe (OK - you probably would) the sorts of queries we get, and the time it takes to sort some of them out.

5.  We have and continue to learn lessons - and we get better and better.  Processing 190 boats across 8 starts x 6 races is not an instant exercise!  We do post "final" provisional results before the prize giving, and announce it.  We are also under pressure to get competitors away at a sensible time.

So, spare a thought for us!  There are few places where 190 boats could race in mixed fleets (and allow club members to continue sailing), provide a great weekend's sailing on a fantasic bit of water and get preliminary results out less than 20 minutes after the last boat comes ashore.

All points for us to take note of, to educate decisions about future Cat opens, and for us all to make things better for everyone in the future (and don't forget to put your correct sail number down!)

Anyway - the general opinion seems to be it was a good weekend overall - look forward to seeing you again next year.

Tom Smith

Paul

Thanks

The problem is we don't really know about duplicates until we start getting results - there's no pre-entry at the moment, so issues only crop up when the competitors are put in - by which time they are on the water.

I think putting "exactly" (not exaclty - sorry, couldn't resist) is a good idea and we'll do it - but if people can't read what they are meant to do now I'm not sure it'll solve all the problems - worth a try though.

Tom

Perhaps Tom can update us all here, but I would be surprised if the major objective of any club hosting a large regatta was profit. I can only speak for my club but when we host large events (Irish National Championships and the like) we don't aim for much of a profit, if any. We have to divide our anticipated costs by the expected number of participants. Setting the entry fee too high drives competitors away and is self defeating. The only area we can make money is at the bar and this too is limited for classes such as Topper (too young to drink) or Laser (bodies are temples). We can make money from the cats as it's considered unsportsmanlike to sail without hangovers, but there are relatively few catamaran sailors in Ireland and international competitions don't happen every week.

In any case, the organisation for a large regatta is phenomenal and a largely thankless task. So much is required from volunteers with regard to rescue, registration, OOD, timekeepers, sandwich makers, boat park preparation et al, that puely financial reward would never justify the effort.

So motivation is generally for the prestige of the club and the furthering of the sport in general. Why do you end up as club treasurer? Is it because you think it a good chat-up line, a useful addition to your CV or because the job won't do itself and it's time to put back what you have taken out?

Here at Ballyholme, we have the whole of Belfast Lough to play with so there are no real restrictions in the size of course. Bu the race officer will scale the course to the size of the fleet to keep it interesting. When we race upwind we are naturally looking for gaps as we tack across the course. Why should it be any different downwind? It's easy enough to spot the less experienced sailors and usually quicker to go round them than argue about right of way. Competitors are natural obstacles and it's up to us all to prevent accidents and collisions. But what do you want - time trials? I personally feel cheated if I finish a race without having shouted my head off at any boat that tries to cross me, luff me, duck me, lee-bow me or anything else that might gain him advantage, right or wrong.

On any given day we sail the winds that are there, we sail the course that is set. We race the competiion that is there. And, if we have any grace at the end, we thank the OOD and organising committee for having taken the trouble.

Odd - I've had a email notification of a post about club's motives for doing opens - but it doesn't show up here (at least not as I'm looking at it)??  The poster (Shadowman) said:-

"Just on entry fees, the CLub splits part of the fees with the fleets involved who spend it on developing the fleets at the Club, part on prizes and part on running costs. The Club p&l never looks as though GWSC would interest the Dragons and the money is ploughed back into providing the sort of facilities that make Open competitors want to sail at GW and members want to join!! This year the fast cats invested in those sexy black hats as prizes (and promotion!). The Open income is a help but members subs dominate. The Club could sell out on Opens every weekend but a few years ago it was decided to limit the number of Opens to lessen the strain on  volunteers and because members' felt that the balance was wrong."

and that's exactly it.  Personally i'd like to see the water used more - I think to see the lake full of boats is a great advertisement for the sport as a whole, but we agreed to limit the number of 2 day opens, allow quite a few Saturday only events and quite a lot of Saturday training events (and then they can sail in club racing on a Sunday) - BUT to have club racing every Sunday. 

We do regularly get 100 boats on a Sunday for club racing - 5 starts, 3 races in the summer, 2 in the winter (shameless plug - become a winter member and see for yourself).  Not may places can offer that to members - and at the end of the day, as said, it is a member's club and membership fees account for the VAST majority of income.  Open events do little for club finaces.

I have taken exception in the past to visitors who said (at the club, in public earshot) "most clubs would have the sense to cancel club racing when there's an open on"  NO NO NO - we have to look after our members, of course we want to promote the club, of course we feel obliged to maximise the use of the water for the greater good - but in the end it is a members' club. It could be argued (and is by some) that we should have NO open meetings - especially if staffing them becomes more of a problem.  It is argued by others that we should maximise income - the balance is somewhere in between - and we've probably got it about right now.  Grafham is a big enough piece of water to support open meetings (even large ones) and club racing, and recreational sailing/windsurfing, and fishing, and teaching - all at the same time.  Good sense and good planning have to prevail - but they ususally do.  There aren't too many venues that have the resources (physical or manpower) but as long as we do I expect that we'll continue to offer about a dozen large (>100 boats) opens a year.

We do want to make the Grafham experience as good for everyone as we can - so feedback like this forum is helpful. Keep it coming.