Dart HAWK Racing

Hi, I was reading the Hurricane SX boat test as featured in Y&Y 4th feb 2006 and I noticed that in the verdict they say and I quote "It's probably an easier boat to sail than the F18 and much more of a one design class in which old boats stay competative. For instance a Dart Hawk or Inter 18 wouldn't stand a hope in current F18 racing". I'm not particulary worried about racing but I have seen a number of Hawk's listed as coming in the top 10, so are they really that far behind the new boats?. Also the PYN of the Hawk is the same as the Hobie Tiger and Hurricane and they still seem to be doing OK. I know there aren't too many Hawks about so I guess one make racing is out but it seems that most clubs allow mixed class racing anyway. What new F18 boats are still competative?.

Originally posted by lostatsea What new F18 boats are still competative?.

It depends what you mean by competitive.

If you define competitive as a fast club boat that someone can take to opens and learn and do quite well all the F18's will fit the bill including the Hawk.

If you want the final competitive edge (ie the last few extra yards round the track) then the fastest 3 are currently the Nacra Infusion, Capricorn and the Hobie Tiger.

However, as all F18s sail against each other off the same handicap (like the International 14s for example) they all have the same PY of 691 (I think).

Hope this makes some sense

Originally posted by Worthy Originally posted by lostatsea What new F18 boats are still competative?. However, as all F18s sail against each other off the same handicap (like the International 14s for example) they all have the same PY of 691 (I think).

Is this correct?

 

SCHRS is a “measurement based” handicap system so an F18 is an F18 no matter how much refinement has been carried out on it so long as it still measures and weighs as an F18.

 

Portsmouth Yardstick is a “returns based” handicap system and as very few Cats are raced under PY’s are these returns sent in?

 

I can find no mention of and F18, or even a Dart Hawk come to that,on the latest Portsmouth Yardstick Numbers at –

 

  http://www.rya.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C4B7A55A-EE46-4C29-884F-8 E1952A62B31/0/7PNList2006webversion.pdf

 

However they do say that a full list is available on CD – Cost? – maybe they are listed as Recorded Numbers on there?

Someone call ?

Yes SCHRS is a measurement based handicapping system and it is possible to approx convert an SCHRS number to a PY - it is not an exact science as worthy says because PY is returns (and so rates the boat and the sailors of the boat).  Worthy is also correct in that (currently I believe) that the F18 is usually races of 691.

Worthy is also correct that there are a number of people working on refining the SCHRS rule.

Originally posted by Scooby_simon   Worthy is also correct in that (currently I believe) that the F18 is usually races of 691.

OK if the Hurricane and Hawk were raced some years back before the advent of SCHRS and returns were sent in then the PY of 691 is surely justified, if fact the best Cat sailors were sailing Hurricanes then so its PY may well be at bit harsh today?

 

To say that the F18 inherited a PY of 691 due to the fact of returns for the Hawk and now all F18’s race of this (if racing off PY) although no, or not enough, PY returns have been sent in for these newer and faster developments, is surely stretching the rules of fair sailing!

Worthy said that a Hawk is no longer competitive against today’s F18’s, and if today’s F18 PY returns were going in based on the very good sailors in the F18 fleet now then almost with out doubt that rating would have dropped as PY is a results based handicap! Surely it is very much as if the Hurricane SX boats claimed a PY of 691 as they also rate the same as a Hurricane with out a kite by SCHRS measurement rules, but current results appear to show the SX as faster.

As PY is results based then the only fair way to sail off this system is to put in the correct and up-to-date returns or not race off this system at all?

Edited by Port End Flyer