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Oli View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 7:03pm

Originally posted by kanga

surely yes, but imagine dial ups and slow speed manouvering and all the other characteristics of match racing. boats that spin too quickly cannot really dial up and with boats that acclerate too quickly, means that if you fall out of a close situation with the opponent, in a losing position, your mistake is not penalised enough - with heavier keelboats, you have to really get the boat going again before you can sail off, whether its before or after the start.

with light boats, you'd get no mark traps, downwind penalties would be hard to get rid of and the entire principle of match racing would be warped!

but everyone is in the same boat, so to speak, which means people have to adapt and react faster in terms of dial ups and gaining back on their mistakes.  sailing is an adaptive sport, and as such people who aspire to be at the top should be able to adapt to any boat, fast/slow/dinghy/yacht. which they currently do, look at the match tour, how many types of boat used, how many different techniques used?

and if keelboats arent better suited , why is the apparent pinnacle of our sport the AC held in in ylarge lumbering yachts?  or will it be open 90's, or 90ft tris.  but thats another story.

i wasnt having a pop at the elliot, just wondering how they came to those decisions.  i couldnt care less what boat its done in, the sailors should adapt to whatever they are given, but if we're trying to achieve more air time at the olympics then surely more dramatic classes should win out.
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Posts: 248 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by slop_idol

match racing is predominately done in one design classes, if your all sailing the same class of boat i dont see how you can have a boat that is less or more forgiving.  its down to the sailor.  like for like some boats are easier to sail, but its still just as difficult to win.



i see why you think that but unless you actually understand match racing properley, its very hard to reason why keelboats are better suited.
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Posts: 988 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 1:15pm
The best sailors will win regardless of the choice of boat (my guess is the crew weight will actually be very similar to the Yngling).

Choice of boats should not be made on what is a countries best chance of getting a medal but is what is best for the sport.

On balance I feel this is a move in the right direction.
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Posts: 248 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 12:54pm
surely yes, but imagine dial ups and slow speed manouvering and all the other characteristics of match racing. boats that spin too quickly cannot really dial up and with boats that acclerate too quickly, means that if you fall out of a close situation with the opponent, in a losing position, your mistake is not penalised enough - with heavier keelboats, you have to really get the boat going again before you can sail off, whether its before or after the start.

with light boats, you'd get no mark traps, downwind penalties would be hard to get rid of and the entire principle of match racing would be warped!
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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 12:47pm

match racing is predominately done in one design classes, if your all sailing the same class of boat i dont see how you can have a boat that is less or more forgiving.  its down to the sailor.  like for like some boats are easier to sail, but its still just as difficult to win.
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 12:42pm
You want a fast tacking preferably displacement boat and the SB3 doesnt really satisfy that.

I know the 14s have a team race every year, but its like asking them or 49ers to have an Olympic team race, the boats just arnt suited to it, as one boat will tend to get a big speed advantage over the other and then its just a drag race to the finish with no real tactics to speak off. There is a reason after all why the Firefly (a not particularly fast or exciting boat) is the team racing boat of choice.

To me the Elliot 6 looks a perfect boat, its just a shame that they are going to modify it, as the standard boat appears to be a delight to sail.
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Posts: 739 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 12:17pm

Originally posted by kanga

you can't really match race in any class because some boats are too forgiving to tactical mistakes - the reason you dont have them in dinghies is because you can accelerate out of bad positions too easily etc.

Surely the boat with the advantage can equally accelerate and make the most of the gain.

 
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Posts: 248 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 10:10am
you can't really match race in any class because some boats are too forgiving to tactical mistakes - the reason you dont have them in dinghies is because you can accelerate out of bad positions too easily etc.

and i think they would reduce the weight limit from 270kg for SB3 Match if they had selected it. It normally averages out at 68kg per girl, so 205 would be for 3 girls...
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Posts: 1020 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 9:47am
the only problem i can see in the SB3 would be for crew weight, 270kg, when ISAF have asked for 200kg.  ive fleet and match raced sb3's, why would they not "great"?  come to think of it, you can match race any class of boat, as its down to the sailors tactics and skill more than anything to do with boat design.  firefly, lark, both sail in large fleets but both are competitively match raced, for example.  (not having a go at either class, just examples)
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 08 at 8:40am
Looking at the pics on the Elliot website the Elliot 6m looks a bit like a modern J24.
It actually looks like a nice boat and perfect for the type of racing envisaged.

slop_idol, Im not sure SB3s would be that great for match racing !
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