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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Jul 06 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by aardvark_issues

An Assy was put on a 12 in the early 90's, but it was a very poor effort.


It was done a lot more recently than that though, as you well know, as I seem to remember you had some involvement. Called Loco Perro wasn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 06 at 11:04pm
I apologise about my misunderstanding
Needs to sail more...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 06 at 11:39pm
A N12 with a kite - sounds great ...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 06 at 9:13am

So if some one like Jack Holt were with us today how would he go about getting a new design established in a market that is driven now by the manufacturers rather than the consumer....

Ian

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 06 at 9:24am

That is a good question ...

What is the last class to be launched that is not a SMOD?

Do we have to back to the 60's?

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote andy_cherub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 06 at 9:50am

Yer, all the 12 needs is a kite............. bigger rig............ bigger jib - oh hell guys just get a cherub!!

But for Ian wanting a 2 man hiking asmy fun boat - I may be selling my converted scorpion end of the season! Modded to suit a Cherub kite via a complete restoration / re-build! Actually works - flat out planning in 7 knots with, both fully hiked out

Yes selling due to not actually liking hiking as it HURTS!!!

So get a cherub, Twin wire is definately the order of the day

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Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 06 at 10:20am
Originally posted by Guest#260

That is a good question ...

What is the last class to be launched that is not a SMOD?

Do we have to back to the 60's?

Rick

The Phantom was 1972, the Express (scraping the barrel here) mid 70's. Miracle, 1975...Streaker, similar date...so, Whats happened since? The Flyer bombed in the 90's. Maybe the "Laser effect" had kicked in by the mid 70's and builders realized a captive market made more money?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 06 at 10:48am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by ifoxwell

So if some one like Jack Holt were with us today how would he go about getting a new design established in a market that is driven now by the manufacturers rather than the consumer....

Ian

 



An interesting perspective Ian, personally I reckon the successful racing classes of modern times have been driven by consumer insight rather than by manufacturing & commercial limitations... 

I know I've banged on about this before, and I'm sorry to be repetitive, but IMHO that is the biggest problem in UK dinghy sailing at the moment. I am all for new designs coming out, 'advancing' the state of the art, but why do they all need to be new classes? Why can't someone (the RYA?) develop a series of new 'formula' classes so that the designers/manufacturers concentrate on these rather than fragmenting fleets into ever smaller numbers. An example: The L4000/ISO - These classes would almost certainly be doing better if Topper /Laser had co-operated rather than competed. Combine these and any future replacements with a 15' single wire asymmetric class. A new 'semi-development' class based on the RS200 (or N12 with gennaker) would allow the likes of Topper and Laser to join this (currently closed) area of the market, would advance design and would meet contemporary sailors requirements. It would also allow RS to release the 201 when sales of the 200 slow down, without alienating their customers. Win-win.

In my personal opinion 12 foot is too short and I would prefer 14-15 foot, but I'd go with the flow if it meant getting the class going. Elsewhere on this forum I posted a preliminary design of a NS14/MG14, as I feel this is a better rule than the N12, and substantially cheaper than the Merlin Rocket (whilst being lighter and without that old-fashioned symmetric kite). Progress has slowed since the latest arrival to our family, but as he has now developed the ability to sleep for more than half an hour at a time, I hope to get it complete by the autumn. If anyone would be interested in building it, I will gladly give them a copy of the design.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 06 at 10:49am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by ifoxwell

So if some one like Jack Holt were with us today how would he go about getting a new design established in a market that is driven now by the manufacturers rather than the consumer....

Ian



An interesting perspective Ian, personally I reckon the successful racing classes of modern times have been driven by consumer insight rather than by manufacturing & commercial limitations... 

If that were true TT then it seems odd that no new classes (except SMOD's) have had any success since the early 70's. ...

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 06 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Chew my RS


...(whilst being lighter and without that old-fashioned symmetric kite).



I would strongly disagree that symmetric kite boats are old fashioned, or that symmetric spinnakers are old fashioned.

It is true that no new symmetric boats have been designed recently but that is because the symmetric classes are established classes and the are probably very few (if any) gaps in the market for a new design. Symmetric classes do develop (Merlin Rocket is a dev class if memory serves) and most other classes have tolerance in the measurements which allow a degree of experimentation with the hull shape.

Assymetrics are sucessful but look at the recing classes review, symmetric boats that were 'unfashionable' a few years back are now enjoying a resurgence (175 boats at the 2005 FB worlds, 120 or so at the nationals) with numbers falling off slightly in the assymetric classes as people decide their preference.

I would hardly call a modern 5o5 or FD old fashioned either (they might come and run you down ).

I think it would be interesting if someone was to have a pop at designing a new symmetric boat just to see what they some up with.

Paul
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