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redders View Drop Down
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Posts: 41 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mark Rounding
    Posted: 22 Dec 05 at 1:34pm

Scenario:

75 minute pursuit race on reservoir...Start line is a mark of the course as port end of line and a laid mark as starboard......Mirror approaching mark to round to port at the end of her first lap....Tasar on port about to start approaching the mark.

Question: Can the Mirror claim inside boat with overlap or can the Tasar shut the door as she is about to start?
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 05 at 1:54pm

I am having trouble understanding your description. "Start line is a mark of the course as port end of line and a laid mark as starboard" makes no sense to me.

 

 
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 05 at 2:08pm

If they were on the same lap the Mirror would have water.

If they were both starting then the Taser would have right of way.

In this case I don't know ... daft race officer - should have made the course bigger to make sure they got all classes off before the first starter lapped.

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Posts: 2753 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 05 at 2:12pm
I am having trouble understanding your description. "Start line is a mark of the course as port end of line and a laid mark as starboard" makes no sense to me.


Makes sense to me but im not sure of the answer

Im pretty sure redders means that one end of the start line is also a mark of the course. Boat A is rounding that mark when racing. Boat B is cutting close to that mark in a starting situation, who has rights?


Edited by Isis
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 05 at 2:56pm

Originally posted by Isis

Im pretty sure redders means that one end of the start line is also a mark of the course. Boat A is rounding that mark when racing. Boat B is cutting close to that mark in a starting situation, who has rights?

Yes I gathered that much as well but I can't visualise the situation precisely from the description.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 05 at 4:17pm
Lets look at the rules. By askling for water Mirror wants rule 18 to apply. Does it?

18.1 When This Rule Applies
Rule 18 applies when boats are about to round or pass a mark they are required to leave on the same side, or an obstruction on the same side, until they have passed it. However, it does not apply
(a) at a starting mark surrounded by navigable water or at its anchor line from the time the boats are approaching them to start until they have passed them, or
(b) while the boats are on opposite tacks, either on a beat to windward or when the proper course for one of them, but not both, to round or pass the mark or obstruction is to tack.

OK, well 18.1a says when the boatS plural are approaching to start. Mirror is not approaching to start so I would say that rule 18 applies and therefore Mirror is entitled to room.
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 05 at 6:41am

Originally posted by JimC

Lets look at the rules. By askling for water Mirror wants rule 18 to apply. Does it?

18.1 When This Rule Applies
Rule 18 applies when boats are about to round or pass a mark they are required to leave on the same side, or an obstruction on the same side, until they have passed it. However, it does not apply
(a) at a starting mark surrounded by navigable water or at its anchor line from the time the boats are approaching them to start until they have passed them, or
(b) while the boats are on opposite tacks, either on a beat to windward or when the proper course for one of them, but not both, to round or pass the mark or obstruction is to tack.

OK, well 18.1a says when the boatS plural are approaching to start. Mirror is not approaching to start so I would say that rule 18 applies and therefore Mirror is entitled to room.

Possibly, but I was wondering whether 18.1b applied. Mirror is described as being about to round a mark to port, so presumably is on starboard, while the Tasar is on port. However the description isn't clear enough to be sure. That's why I asked for clarification but the OP seems to have gone away.

 
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 05 at 9:08am

Redders needs to clarify the rounding.

Is the mirror rounding in the opp. direction to the starting direction or not. 

I.e. if boats are both on Stbd (tasar starting) and mirror rounding the mark (AKA CTTE boat maybe) then I think that JimC is correct and the Tasar (or tasars) must give room to the mirror as per his reasoning.  The windward most Tazar must give the mirror room as the mark is a mark of the course. 

If the boats are on opp tacks then it's Ports vs STBD w vs L - end of story

 

Now could get VERY interesting if another (Late)Taser spots what is going to happen and tried to follow the Mirror around and then tack away.
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Posts: 42 		Post Options Post Options   Quote john.d.knight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 05 at 2:18pm
I would agree with Jim C regarding the mirror being allowed to call water, but would the Taser be allowed to call for water for the mirror if there are other boats to leeward. The Taser would nolonger asking for water on the start mark, not allowed under 18.1(a), but now needs water to pass an obstruction, the mirror. 

Edited by john.d.knight
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 05 at 2:39pm

Originally posted by john.d.knight

I would agree with Jim C regarding the mirror being allowed to call water, but would the Taser be allowed to call for water for the mirror if there are other boats to leeward. The Taser would nolonger asking for water on the start mark, not allowed under 18.1(a), but now needs water to pass an obstruction, the mirror. 

 

Yes the Tasar can call for the water IMO (might be difficult to get mind if the rest of the boats are racked up tight).

Simple solution is to not set the course like this and put the last mark before going thru the line a little to leaward of the starting line (as we do at Grafham).

 
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