Olympic 'finals' proposal

I know someone on the ISAF council. She has been sailing for years on and off, all her kids have grown up at the same club she sails at and are all great sailors. She is still out there every weekend in her Europe or crewing with her husband in a fifteen. Come to think of it she probably sails more regularly than many 'keen' sailors I know.

Maybe not younger, but certainly in touch. As for the rest - most seem to have been pretty active sailors all their lives. And anyway how many 20-30 year olds want to give up thier sailing to go and sit in conference for a week?

As for how they got there? I don't know - you had better ask them yourself

"There's probably a difference between what it takes to put together a medal winning campaign and what it takes for a small country to put together a respectable mid fleet campaign. Plus of course a lot of countries buy into to the "its impossible to change classes" bit and thing that you have to have 100 Finns in the country to produce a finn champ and all the rest of it."

Sounds right to me.

"Because the Radial is more widely sailed. And it was a dumb decision IMO."

Irrespective of whether it was a dumb decision, the mere fact that the Radial is more widely sailed because it is cheaper is a very valid reason for nations to support it.

Stefan re "Sorry but I find your story of the plucky Australian coming in the top 10 on a tiny budget rather far-fetched. It's a rich country with a lot of rich men interested in sailing. I seriously doubt some private sponsorship couldn't have been found."

Well, since I've known the guy for years; since we all turned up for old-fashioned film nights to support his fundraising; since we all bought raffle tickets and all that sort of stuff, I'm pretty damn well sure there was not this mythical rich man.

If he had pots of money laying around he probably wouldn't now be working as a labourer.

Neither I or anyone I know has ever seen any evidence of rich men backing the Laser or board sailers. I know there is a rich man who backs the Tornado crews (which includes his son).

It's a bit amusing that you think you know about his financial affairs when you don't even know who I'm talking about.

Also note that one of the US reps in the last 2 or 3 Games (in a strict OD) makes and sells handbags to help support herself. If she had bundles of cash wandereing around would she bother to do that?

 

"Personally I think classes like the Finn, Tornado, Yngling, Star, 470 and the windsurfers are relics of a distant past and don't reflect sailing today and are not exciting nor as attractive to yound sailors in the way that the skiff type dinghies are and they should be dropped."

There's about 20 registered 49ers in Australia. About 21 registered 49ers in the USA. Not too many in the UK (68 IIRC).

Even in Australia the skiffs are only popular in one state, where the poker machines used by the non-sailing members subsidise the fleet (ie get a free 18 or 16, get paid beer money to sail it) and even there not all that many kids bother to move from Lasers etc to skiffs. Even there, the skiffs are actually less widespread than they used to be.

Jim C pointed out that the Contender gets more boats than all the singlehanded skiff classes put together in the UK. The Radial, a slow boat, is vastly faster growing than the skiffs.

Y&Y's own nationals attendance puts the first skiff at 33rd. In fact comparing the current table to that of the '70s and '80s may well show that the most popular boats of the '00s are SLOWER than the most popular boats of the '70s.

Therefore where's the evidence that skiffs are the future????

So how do skiffs really

I think that the proposal with a proportion of points being carried forward would be far more confusing than the original system- any idiot can figure that you add up all your points, and exclude your worst score. However with the proportion system I believe that it would result in points of 3.75 and 5.25 etc. which would be very confusing, and the mathematics and calculations could be more complex than the current system (which I think is simple)

 

The idea of a final is very worrying, turning sailing into a spot governed by the media, which whilst it brings money it isn’t beneficial for the sailors- I think in American Football the have to schedule the timing of the match to fit in with TV commercial breaks!!!! Sailing is a sport which needs a long series of races to eliminate the flukes caused by the fickle nature of the wind, race committee errors, and other variables out of the competitor’s hands. Also there are the matters of OCS/BFD calls, rule 42 infringements and gear failure the sailors is mostly at fault, but are often causes of protests and errors are sometimes made. The sailors can understand this, surely the idea of the Olympics Is to produce the best sailor, not the best TV footage.

 

The finals format would also encourage the worlds best sailors to bang corners etc. and take stupid risks to attempt a medal position.

 

It is not guaranteed that the final would give more exciting viewing, it could be held in a force 2-3. And how annoying for the general public be to watch their national superstar be OCS, or to be beaten by the guy who hits the left hand corner and gets lucky? The system of having a finals would be a two edged blade for the area of TV coverage: broadcasting companies would want to show the finals, but the first 10 races would be insignificant and boring, so would get far less coverage than normal.

 

Someone suggested that the worlds would still produce the best sailor, but with the worlds often a primary selector for the Olympics, the whole format of large regattas would be forced to mirror the Olympics, so that national authorities could select the best sailor for the Olympic regatta. Unless of course the RYA staged a single race to select the representative?

 

However I think the Olympics would still produce a good sailor, bear with me: the current system rewards the sailor that can perform consistently well over 10 of 11 (or 14 of 16 for the 49er) races. Whereas the proposed system would reward any sailor who can bodge together a half decent series, then keep their nerve to pull off a brilliant race under pressure when it really matters.

 

From personal experience I’m not a fan of the finals idea: at our squad training we had a couple of races at the end of each weekend to put into practice what we’d learnt, this also formed the selection series for the Eric Twiname regatta. On the last weekend the positions from the entire previous 5 weekends trainings formed race 1, and 3 more races were scheduled. But only one race was sailed

in shifty force 1-2 winds - an absolute lottery. From being in a qualifying position practically the whole way I wasn’t selected, this didn’t bother me too much, but a friend who had been in the top 3 the whole way missed out and was very disappointed and thought the way the system worked out (due to only having one race) was unfair.

 

Would these changes come in place for 2008, as the venue sounds fluky enough without adding another lottery element! If the changes are introduced for 2012 it would be a shame in my opinion, as it would be very trial and error, and could ruin what is sure to be a great regatta.

 

I think it all comes down to where ISAF and the IOC want to put the emphasis: either on the sailor and the public who understand the sport, and like me, think that normal tactical racing is interesting to watch; or the general public who can only be bothered to sit down for an hour to watch the ‘grand final’.

 

I know the topic has moved on slightly, but ive only just been able to get on the forum.

Originally posted by sam knight another point is the onboard cameras. Surely, in a class like the 49er where they are obsesed with weight, right down to tapered ropes and rope trapezes 'wires', they aren't going to be happy strapping a camera to the mast?

It works in Formula 1 - the cameras are tiny. I think that could be a good
idea.

not exciting nor as attractive to yound sailors in the way that the skiff type dinghies are and they should be dropped.

Oh come on.

Tornado not exciting.  FFS; evey sailor I know (well just about) says "I wish I had the time/money for a Tornado, they look so much fun".  Get a grip.

What we need is a mixture.  Some crash and burn, some around the cans and some long distance (for the faster boats; say 49er on a short course, say 20 miles) and the Tornado's on a decent course of around 50 miles (ECPR length)). and then factore all this into the results.

Some of the volvo series where the Tornado's were racing close to shote with the leaward mark just on the surf line looked fantastic. 

We also need the sailing to be somewhere there is (almost) 100% guaranteed wind - I have a feeling China is going to be a disaster.