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    Posted: 19 Aug 08 at 11:31pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Chris 249

They then spend over 2
million US on marketing in 3 years.


 


That is a very very big budget for our sport; I'm surprised I didn't see
that.


Exactly what were they marketing into which market?



They were initially marketing Lasers and Sunfish. You may not have seen
it because this was in the 1990s in the USA, and only "token" amounts of
the spend went into sailing mags. The vast majority went into other
media, like non-specialist mags, but it attracted only lots of former
sailors - not newbies.

The survey showed what non-sailors wanted, so they brought out the
Escape range, which sold like hotcakes (4,000 p.a.) until a corporate
takeover.


Is this survey available anywhere on the web?
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 9:19am
No, Peter J told me about it; I think Rod J also mentioned it when I spoke to
him years ago.I was getting info for my project that has been 90% done for
two years....
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Posts: 1105 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 9:42am
I was thinking about this whole thread on the way home last night and came to one conclusion.  This would only happen on a UK site, that for once we actually have sailing on TV and people outside of the sport are watching it, but we still still put more effort into picking apart the finer details and moaning about the racing details, than remembering that all publicity is good publicity!  At the end of the day, in a couple of months time when the premiership is in full swing and the 6 nations is round the corner people will not remember that boats were falling over on lumpy water in the driving rain, they will remember that we won some medals in the sailing, and maybe if we are lucky, joe public will rememebr that it was Ben's third gold, and the Yngling girl's second.  And if we are very lucky they might remember that there is no reason why we can't do even better in weymouth and so keep funding the sport. 
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Posts: 247 		Post Options Post Options   Quote oz man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 9:57am
spot on phil thats kinda what i was trying to say
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Posts: 589 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Phil eltringham

I was thinking about this whole thread on the way home last night and came to one conclusion.  This would only happen on a UK site, that for once we actually have sailing on TV and people outside of the sport are watching it, but we still still put more effort into picking apart the finer details and moaning about the racing details, than remembering that all publicity is good publicity!  At the end of the day, in a couple of months time when the premiership is in full swing and the 6 nations is round the corner people will not remember that boats were falling over on lumpy water in the driving rain, they will remember that we won some medals in the sailing, and maybe if we are lucky, joe public will rememebr that it was Ben's third gold, and the Yngling girl's second.  And if we are very lucky they might remember that there is no reason why we can't do even better in weymouth and so keep funding the sport. 




Ahh come on we're brits - if we can't whinge about something then we're not happy...
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 11:42am
Originally posted by Phil eltringham

than remembering that all publicity is good
publicity! 


But the whole point is that the old "all publicity is good publicity" line is
simply (as I understand it, after dealing with quite a few PR/ad pros) is
JUST NOT ALWAYS
TRUE

One of the men who created the very boat we are discussing has
effectively said that the "any publicity is good publicity" line just isn't true
and actually hurts the sport, and he has an excellent record selling racing
boats.

He also used to sell windsurfers when they were huge. Then as he said
the windsurfers went "ooooh, any publicity is good publicity and showing
pros looping is good" and now that sport is a fraction as big as it was.

Sorry, Phil and Oz, but why do you assume that he, and the head of North
Sails and their other partner, are complete idiots and took the wrong
choice when they ran probably the biggest and most successful small-
boat marketing exercise in sailing history?

Either it is NOT as simple as you say - that is, it's NOT just a case of "any
publicity is good publicity" - or a guy from the family that probably sold
more bucks worth of racing boats than any other group in history is
wrong and a complete dill, and so are the advisers (like the world's
biggest sailmaker) who helped him spend millions and sell 4000+ boats
a year.

Your pick.

No one is saying that fast boats are always bad PR. But I am curious - just
what would it take for people to open their minds to the idea that
perhaps it's not as simple a proposition as they think?










Edited by Chris 249
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 11:58am

Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by Phil eltringham

than remembering that all publicity is good
publicity! 


But the whole point is that the old "all publicity is good publicity" line is
simply (as I understand it, after dealing with quite a few PR/ad pros) is
JUST NOT ALWAYS
TRUE

One of the men who created the very boat we are discussing has
effectively said that the "any publicity is good publicity" line just isn't true
and actually hurts the sport, and he has an excellent record selling racing
boats.

He also used to sell windsurfers when they were huge. Then as he said
the windsurfers went "ooooh, any publicity is good publicity and showing
pros looping is good" and now that sport is a fraction as big as it was.

Sorry, Phil and Oz, but why do you assume that he, and the head of North
Sails and their other partner, are complete idiots and took the wrong
choice when they ran probably the biggest and most successful small-
boat marketing exercise in sailing history?

Either it is NOT as simple as you say - that is, it's NOT just a case of "any
publicity is good publicity" - or a guy from the family that probably sold
more bucks worth of racing boats than any other group in history is
wrong and a complete dill, and so are the advisers (like the world's
biggest sailmaker) who helped him spend millions.

Your pick. But I am curious - just what would it take for some people
here to consider that perhaps it's not as simple a proposition as they
think?

Do you really know more about selling sailing and SMOD skiffs than the
man who helped created the first SMOD skiff and the most successful
one, and have you got his marketing experience?





 

If they are that smart why did they spend $2M marketing a product that their survey told them would not sell?

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Posts: 1105 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 12:04pm

maybe its not always true after all, (and I am not trying to slur the guys who worked on the 49er, even if NielPryde make the sails now, I've met most of them and have huge respect for what they have achieved) but do you genuinely believe that people will want to take up sailing after watching it on TV?  I mean, even if we could have an event of perfect conditions, where there were no protests, the best sailor won every time and only by beating his closest rival in a final race 1-2.  There will only ever be a tiny number of people actually inspired enough to get off their sofas and give it a go, and even fewer will, having tried it and experienced the reality of the lottery mish-mash of conditions we've seen in china, will continue to stick with it. 

If you want more people to sail in the future, much as it pains me to say it, the most effective and cost-efficient way to do this is to make sure kids have fun doing it on PGL holidays and at local clubs.  Rock stars on TV once every 4 years will not change the world. 

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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 12:09pm
Rick, they didn't.

The project was about getting NEW people into sailing. The first part sold
lots of boats, but to sailors returning from the sport.

The second part sold lots of boats, to new sailors, till people sold out for
other reasons and a corporation bought in.

If they are that dumb, why do the Johnstones probably sell more racing
yachts than anyone else, and why is Norths the world's biggest sailmaker,
and why does PJ get to play in a 62' carbon cat with money from selling
small boats?

This is not the only survey that has showed the same thing, but I cannot
find my details on the other.....apart from Australia's biggest
sports/marketing survey, the Sweeney report. Its director Martin Hronjes
has pointed out that there is NO real correlation between the publicity and
sponsorship a sport gets, and the number of participants.

If fast boats are the key, why do so few people sail them?

Why not look at the Sweeney reports (Oz), the Sport UK (?) survey on Uk
sports participation, and the US Sporting Goods Mfctrs Association 2007
report on sports participation (the 2008 one costs) and see what sports
people REALLY do in big numbers? It sure as hell ain't the extreme ones,
and it's not all that often the ones that get publicity.

Edited by Chris 249
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 08 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Phil eltringham

maybe its not always true after all, (and I am
not trying to slur the guys who worked on the 49er, even if NielPryde
make the sails now, I've met most of them and have huge respect for
what they have achieved) but do you genuinely believe that people will
want to take up sailing after watching it on TV?  I mean, even if we could
have an event of perfect conditions, where there were no protests, the
best sailor won every time and only by beating his closest rival in a final
race 1-2.  There will only ever be a tiny number of people actually
inspired enough to get off their sofas and give it a go, and even fewer
will, having tried it and experienced the reality of the lottery mish-mash
of conditions we've seen in china, will continue to stick with it. 


If you want more people to sail in the future, much as it pains me to
say it, the most effective and cost-efficient way to do this is to make sure
kids have fun doing it on PGL holidays and at local clubs.  Rock stars on
TV once every 4 years will not change the world. 



Exactly right, as far as I know - you've hit it 100%. That's why this idea
that we should ignore the boats that most people sail, and concentrate
on spectacular footage of the boats that very few people DO sail, is
wrong.
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