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49er medal race

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 49er medal race
    Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 11:20am

Given where the mast failed, ie: about 50cm down from the lower spreaders, it is highly unlikely to be a manufacturing defect as there are not fittings there, unless there is a problem with the aluminium extrusion.  My guess is that there was not enough rig tension and as the crew weight bounced around in the chop the shock load of two guys on the trapeeze would have bent the mast.  If it had gone at the join or the hounds, or the gooseneck then you could start thinking about the engineering. 

well the 49ers will have all carbon masts for 2012 as requested by the class association, so we will have to see what happenes in 4 years time

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Teamvmg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 11:32am

You have to have the right sail insignia in a medal race to be so that the other competitors know who is who and who to cover/watch.

Its like boats pretending that their electrics have gone so that they do no have to report in their positions on a trans-atlantic race, when they know where everyone else is in the fleet.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 11:43am
The Danes have been confirmed as gold medalists by the Jury.
Needs to sail more...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sailorbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 11:48am
Cut out the whingeing guys. This coverage has done more for the image of sailing than anything that`s gone before.It wasn`t classic sailing, but we can leave that to Ben.We saw excitement and drama and sportsmanship in spades. If the danes sought permission at the earliest opportunity (even if it was after the race) there shouldn`t be a problem. If the race committee can`t see that they need to grow up.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 11:49am

Teamvmg - I take your point, but in this particular race I think the Danes could afford to come last and still win, so no amount of covering would change the result.

Phil - It may not be a defective mast in that it may not be different to any of the others, but two normal sized guys went sailing in conditions considered suitable by the race committee and their mast broke. Do the manufacturers recommend a minimum rig tension? Do they offer a warantee that is only honoured if the mast is used within certain limits? Is bouncing around not allowed? A mast should be able to withstand the vims and vigours of racing. It didn't. As the competitors did not have the choice of using another mast manufacturer or designer, it can not be their fault that it broke if they weren't abusing it. As top level sailors I'm fairly sure they would only use their mast in a way they considered necessary for winning races, no mucking about.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote kanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by JimC

Simon, you don't find that the heavier boys go down the mine faster in the 49er then? It seems to be a feature of certain shorter classes that the more lard there is on board the faster the bow goes down.


Only if your sat on the bow downwind!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 12:33pm
Also, for those who are against the Danes winning - food fo thought:

Surely its the olympic spirit that keeps the competition alive - what a fantastic story - they were at such a huge disadvantage - I think we all thought it was over for them.

They sailed all teh way in, they rigged an entire new boat and sailed all the way back out-  knackered probably and crossed the startline, made it round the course and caught up enough to be in gold medal position - that, until now, I would've written off as impossible.

Its a fairytale ending to a fantastic day - and when you spend all your time trianing in a boat, to jump into another, customised fora different crew - well, that makes life very tricky too.

Welldone to them and I am glad the medal wasn't tarnished by a protest in the shape of bad sportsmanship.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 12:44pm
Protest decision in full

As summised earlier in this thread - apparently the mast step had gone, which scuppered their abillity to use their boat...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser4000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 1:25pm
And just when we thought it was all over...

Protest 75
49ers ITA / ES vs. Race Committee, DEN & RC requested to attend.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 08 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by Scooby_simon


Originally posted by JimC

I dunno, I reckon that 49er race was more of a lottery
than the damn drifters... The number of medals that changed hands in
the last gybe/bear away to the line was phenomenal. I thought they
would have looked better on the box than they did.
Disappointing


 


Jim, I greatly respect you, but this is just utter rubbish.  If we ever want
sailing to be watched by non sailors, this is exactly what they will wat to
see.  Fast boats in challenging conditions.


Will this race make the "general news" - maybe, will it be on the
hilights tonight.


YES....


Perhaps we need two olympic regattas


1, Slow boring boats drifting around the course that will inspire no-
one except some sailors


2, Fast exciting boats which make the general public go "Wow" that
looks wild and challenging, I'd like to try that....


Would you mind a bit less prejudice? Can you show us
evidence that slow boats turn people off the sport? Can you show us
evidence that fast boats turn people onto the sport? Once again, if fast
boats turn people on and slow boats turn people off, why do the vast
majority of people choose to sail slow boats? Why is the number of skiff
types, in the UK and Australia, dropping at a time when slow boats like
Lasers are getting record fleets in some places? Even the top selling
board these days (Kona One) is slow in terms of top speed. Okay, you
can't help yourself from throwing stones at others - but if you expect
anyone to believe your line, you'll have to give them some evidence. BTW,
I spent the day getting the F16 type cat ready for a regatta at a skiff club,
so I'm not coming from just a slow boat perspective. But the one- eyed
view has done a hell of a lot of damage to a great part of the sport
(windsurfing) and we should try to make sure it doesn't infect the rest of
sailing. Please, show us some evidence for your views. If you can't find
objective evidence, maybe you are the one who is writing rubbish?


 


Chris,


That fact my 7 year old son went off to play with his lego as Ben sailed
around the course.


 


he was glued to the screen whith the 49ers and all the sailing he's seen
he has been asking "where are the 49ers and the Tornado's"


Every time A tornado appeared on the first Star race he instantly started
watching it, same when the 49ers were on other courses.


However he is the son of a cat sailor and Skiff liker.  But it shows what
we need to keep the kids happy.


My mates who drive and race cars have a similar opinion.  They will
watch the Skiff DVD's when at my house, they will comment on it looks
fun and challenging.  Mate phoned me up last week to talk about a race
car project and commented that all the sailing had been boring except
the small snippits of the T he had seen. 


My parents are sailors, they watched Ben for a while and then went in
the garden when it was certain he's won.  Tehy came back and whatched
the whole 49er race.


Only anicdotal evidence, but these are the sorts of people we need to
attract if we want it to be seen as something that should be in the ollies
and an interesting sport to watch.


If we want people to take part, we need to make people interested in
the sport first.  Many of my mates have seen sailing as fat gits in boats
drinking G+T's; the wind in china has not helped, they all ask "what's the
challenge in sailing in 4 kts of wind".  We KNOW it's difficult, but it does
not LOOK difficult.  Sailing fast boats looks difficult because people think
sailing fast is harder than sailing slow.


As people has said in advertsing - the facts do not matter, it's
perception.....


 


 


As for getting more people to sail, we generally have a declining sport,
we need to entice people to sail, how do we do that.  Opinions differ, by I
believe it needs to look good, and IMO, slow boats don't LOOK good,
however good the racing is. 


Would people watch F1 if they went around at 20 miles an hour and
never crashed?  Nope, they would watch Touring cars that do crash. 
Would they watch Bike racing if they were doing 20mph and not leaning
over in the corners nope.


If I can summarise, My view is we need sailing to be seen as a "good
sport to watch" that will then entice people to start, or even try sailing. 


I THINK your view is that this will not work and we just need to
somehow get more people sailing.


 


My son is still talking about the 49er race this moring, and the first
thing he said when we got to my parents was "did you watch the 49ers?",
he said the same thing at the party I just took him to.


 


My next problem is how do I pursuade him to sail a Catamaran instead
of a 29er.........


 


 



Yep, my view is that fast boats crashing is not the only, or best, way to
sell the sport.

The car racing analogy is flawed, IMHO, because some of the world's
biggest cpmpanies spend vast sums (although they are tiny to suchj
massive companies) on motorsport yet it attracts no more participants
than sailing.

Apocryphal tales are easy to counter - your kids may have got into
watching 49ers, my stepkids first sailed with a national Tornado champ,
one of them did two nationals on an F16 type cat. Their cousins came in
from a fast-boat background, then went into fairly quick junior dinghies
with success at club level. None of them sail boats now, despite all
coming from families with Tornado experience.

So while we could trade stories, it won't get as far and is perhaps not a
good basis for cries of "rubbish".

Interestingly, one of the 49er's creators (Peter Johnson of J-Boat fame,
whose OD 14 was arguably the first SMOD skiff type) commissioned a
large survey into why people don't sail small boats. North Sails were
involved too.

Performance was NOT an issue - people did not think sailing was boring,
they thought it was expensive, elitist and difficult. Peter now sells carbon
cats, but he still believes in the truth of what the survey revealed.
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