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Martin Smethers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Martin Smethers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tiller waggling
    Posted: 28 Nov 04 at 7:55pm

Don't try this in front of a jury boat.  The reasons and explanations have already been given in earlier answers.  There is a world wide programme in process to get all judges to view the interpretation of rule 42 in the same way.

Originally posted by redback

It seems to me that the new rules are a bit more lenient about waggling the tiller to get the bow off the wind.  Not a bad thing, many of these high performance boats have a tendency to go into irons and they can't be muscled into bearing away like say a Laser.  This happens a lot on the start line, now there's a legit way of getting going as long as you don't use it to propel yourself forwards.  Am I right?
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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Posts: 736 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 04 at 5:59pm
unless the jury boats near. Evryone just freezes in light airs when they come past, unless they don't notice them!
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Posts: 1031 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sailor girl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 04 at 5:25pm
and people will always do it
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hurricane View Drop Down
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Posts: 1047 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hurricane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 04 at 10:21pm

this is one of these things in our sport where no matter how well it is written down it will still be open to intereptation and people will always look at it in different ways

it is something we will just have to put up with!!
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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Posts: 1105 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 04 at 7:39pm

direct from rule definitions:  http://www.sailing.org/rrs2001/42interpretations

42.2 Prohibited Actions

Without limiting the application of rule 42.1, these actions are prohibited:

(d) sculling: repeated movement of the helm not necessary for steering;

INTERPRETATIONS

42–22 Sculling is allowed only when ‘necessary for steering’. This means that no other means of steering is available at the time and such steering results in a clear change of direction.

42–23 Any further connected sculling to offset the first sculling action is prohibited.

42–24 Any sculling (two or more similar movements of the rudder, however small) that does not result in a clear change of direction is prohibited.

42–25 Repeated movement of the helm to offset steering of the boat caused by trimming, such as backing a sail, is prohibited.

42–26 Any sculling continuing once the sail can be filled is prohibited.

So in answer to your question, you can scull once or twice but you have to prove that there was a definate change in course and that only the bare minimum of sculling required was used. 



Edited by Phil eltringham
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hurricane View Drop Down
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Posts: 1047 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hurricane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 04 at 5:29pm
isnt there a rule that you are allowed the same amount of forward movement as equivelent to one paddle, but whos paddle would it be stephen redgraves???
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FreshScum View Drop Down
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Posts: 99 		Post Options Post Options   Quote FreshScum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 04 at 2:04am

you are allowed to make to tiller motions to assist your steering in the way that you did. however there must be a change of course as a result of these.

its in the isaf rule 42 interpretation guidelines. available on their website
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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Posts: 1105 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 04 at 1:35pm
Back the jib (grab the car on self tackers) is the safest way, but on a 700/musto skiff where there is not one then i guess the trick is not to get stuck to start with.  As for rule 42 i think that the trick would be not to wiggle but to use a series of single sharp movements spaced out so that ther is no net speed gain but simply a progressive change in course.  You could also argue that any acceleration is due to you heading on a broarder angle to the wind rather than by  the dynamics of the rudder moving. 
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Posts: 944 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bigwavedave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 04 at 1:08pm

You would have been yellow flagged for sure.  The rules this year prevented that action. The new rules that come into force next year would have let you get away with it.  When ISAF addressed rule 42 they came down very heavy.  
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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Posts: 736 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 04 at 11:26am

My understanding is you can jab one direction a couple of times with the tiller, if you're in irons, not when you could sheet in and bear off ie: if you're on a close hauled course on start line. Having said this i was yellow flagged on a startline in the topper inlands this year for two quick jabs to windward when i was head to wind- by apparently an ISAF qualified judge.
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