What classes will survive ?

kite surfing is boring in no wind.... but I don't see any lack of uptake in that sport! when I was 14-18 wind surfing was massive, we all bought boards and learnt to sail them but only ever bothered when it was blowing 15knts+, if I was 18 again, I'd buy a kite & board for the same conditions... I wanted fast, accessible fun with a group of mates, which was portable without a car, could be done pretty much anywhere on the coast, allowed opportunities for showing off and wind-ups and had a 'cool' image - I doubt much has changed on the motivation front although the under 20's on here are probably cringing now I've used the 'cool' word


....so what if "skiffy" boats are rubbish on inland ponds in no wind or completely un-controlable on open water in 9/10ths of a gale - it's the big grin you get out of them when it's not doing either of these that attracts.... wings, wires, assy spinnakers and carbon sticks all add to sailing enjoyment, not detract IMHO.  I don't believe that if you offered visionairies of the past (I know I miss-spelled that!) like Uffa Fox or Jack Holt modern materials, rig technology and sail-making know-how that they'd dismiss it and stick with stitch-and-glue ply or wood/ally sticks and cotton rags.

... why does entrenched class loyalty in the dinghy sailing world colour people's views on the future?  you might LOVE the class of boat you sail now, and if that's the case I say great, if there are a huge (or small) group of enthusiasts who share your passion all the better.  I have sailed several classes for 5yrs+ because I like the people who sail them and I like the scene but I wouldn't argue any of them represents the future.

By survival we're talking about factors outside of design - manufacturing, proliferation, class assoc's, support, funding, standards of competition, accessibility.... but if we're talking about where dinghy sailing should go in the future then "changing rooms" make overs of old designs like the 470 isn't the answer.


Are we saying the country that has produced some truly excellent dinghy designers (like Holt, Fox, Morrison, Howlett <et al>) can't manage to come up with some decent handling, exciting, accessible new designs based on modern advances like FRP, composites, hydro-foils, wires, wings and flexi-rigs and laminate sails to allow enjoyment of a wide range of folks and provide a 'wow' appearance package on land & water? 

I just can't believe the best we can hope for is a bit of slap and a short skirt on a 1959 design .....

The point isn't whether we can design them - no doubt we could, it's whether they would sell.

I totally agree about the pointlessness of updating the older classes - they just come out looking like mutton dressed as lamb, and no one likes that. 

I love 470s and contenders - both more mature designs shall we say, but likewise I'd also love to have a musto skiff or anything similar with as much high tech gear as possible, but the sad truth is I can't afford one, whereas I can scrape together the funds for a decent second hand contender.

I don't think anyone wants to hold back progress - only yesterday I was blessing my new carbon rig as a fantastic introduction to my sailing, and I think it's only natural for people to defend 'their' favourite boat, but unfortunately innovation has to be tempered by realism and market forces.  What survives will be what sells, not what is most innovative, simple as that. 

I love to see any boat out being sailed, be it a kid in an oppy, a 'yoof' blasting along in a foiling moth or like yesterday at Farmoor, some older gent out cruising in his ancient but clearly much loved OK.

Horses for courses.

Originally posted by getafix I don't believe that if you offered visionairies of the past (I know I miss-spelled that!) like Uffa Fox or Jack Holt modern materials, rig technology and sail-making know-how that they'd dismiss it

At Sailboat, I suppose twenty years ago now, I met a gentleman who'd crewed Avenger (Uffa's ground breaking 14) back in the 1920s.
The establishment was sort of encouraging him to go past the less mainstream stands like ours. Conversation went something like this:-
"All these boats are too damn heavy. How much does this one weigh?"
"Well, 110lbs"
"That's better"

Speaking as a purveyor of "technology for the masses", I concur with TT and Winging it:

The needs of the market, the clubs, and speaking personally, RS, are certainly aligned: Consolidation of classes helps both potential buyers and the clubs. For us this means nurturing our classes more than ever, working closely with the association, and working hard to spread internationally. Same resource, different focus. I would assume a wise move for the industry as a whole.

Meanwhile of course, development continues in the classes which thrive on it, and out of those classes may well come ideas for future popular classes. Patience is a virtue, market niches treat very guardedly.

 

 

Originally posted by Rupert That raises an interesting point in my mind. (interesting to me, anyway...)Are the Skiff style 14's of today more or less of a "jump" from the pre reunification Int 14's than Avenger was from the Morgan Giles "U" section 14's of the late 20's?Of course, Avenger's design required no rule changes.

It'd be difficult to know, as far as I can see.

I haven't checked my sources, but I think the Giles "U-section" designs
like Snark were competitive for some time after Avenger came out. I think
in the early '30s, one of them finished fifth or so in the PoW in a good
breeze.

Also, the top Aussies in the last pre-unification "Open worlds" credit the
Howlett 1b as actually being faster than the Aussie 14 Footer types in
light winds and downwind in San Francisco's heavy air. Bieker also has a
lot of respect for both pre-unification British boats and the contemporary
Aussie boats.