What classes will survive ?

On the topic above the RS Tera is a fantastic boat. The centre I work at has 22 of them in their fleet of boats.

There is one Oppi sailor who prefers the Tera to his racing Oppi and he can still beat Lasers and Lightnings on handicap.

The Tera is a definate boat that will survive in the racing/teaching circuit.

Originally posted by NickA The RYA and IOC do keep several classes alive well beyond their natural. If the RYA didn't put yoofs in toppers or oppies who on earth would buy one - but there are thousands out there.  The 29er should have killed off the hobie 405 and the 420 the day it was launched, but it's only since the RYA adopted the 29er that 420's have really started to fade. .. and 470s?  Why oh why, when the fireball and several similarly sized asymetrics exist? So great news for the byte - which does look splendid with it's (expensive) carbon Bethwaite rig.  Doubtless sales will multiply and parental bank accounts will crumble!

The 29er won't kill off the 420. Not everyone, thank god, has the same
taste in boats. Yes, the 9er is quicker but if speed was what counted,
youth sailors would move to Hobie 16s instead of 29ers.

As an example of what youth sailors want, I find it's interesting to look at
the trap classes down here. There's the two International classes, 420 and
29er. They are similar in numbers. Then there's the two big local classes,
the Cherub and the 125 - slower than a 420, lighter hull than a Cherub
IIRC but with a smaller, simpler rig than the 420.

The 125 is miles slower than the Cherub, neither are squad boats, yet the
125 is just as popular as the Cherub,420 or 29er. There's just no
evidence that there's any strong preference to faster boats; if there was
we'd all sail cats.

We don't have Toppers down here. The only ones I've sailed are beaten-
up sailing school boats and when old and overloaded they seemed
cruddy, BUT they obviously do what they do
damn well. In a lot of ways I wish they'd caught on here; our classes for
that age group can turn kids off sailing because they want to have fun,
not mess around with boat-busters and fragile cored boats and fixed
rudders that make launching difficult etc.

My nephews finished 1st and 3rd in fleet (25 boats) in the local
equivalent of Cadets, so they weren't bad sailors. Then they moved to the
next step up, a high-tech high-speed lightweight kite boat. Now both of
them have dropped out of sailing, because they wanted to mess around in
boats, not mess around WITH complicated boats.

Yes, the RYA shoves kids into the Topper instead of complicated light
boats. The RYA also oversees the world's biggest and best dinghy scene.
Surely the evidence indicates that the RYA is getting it right!

Surely we must base our view of the sport on some sort of evidence. I
have never seen any evidence that faster = more popular; in fact it's the
opposite.

If we want to try to help our sport, surely we should be looking at the
evidence and the facts, not just assuming things and looking from a
blinkered viewpoint.

PS - any sign of the Byte's sales increasing???? Most of the 3.500 Lasers
sold each year are Radials, the Byte doesn't come close.




Edited by Chris 249

Originally posted by turnturtle just for the record a 420 will plane upwind in about a F3-4 onwards depending on crew weight. barber haul the jib, foot five degrees, offer a little windward heel and watch it pop up onto the plane.... okay a bit 'old skool' for the skiffy types, but great fun on a sea and in the breeze.

proof a 420 can plane upwind

^thats with a 16/17 combined crew weight^

and strangely reading this topic has made me want to start using symmetric kites once again

Originally posted by NickA If you plan to grow into a 470 (why would you) or a 5o5 (and why wouldn't you) then I guess the 420 has its place.

... where is that exactly, at the back of the boat park sprouting weeds? as an interesting roundabout decoration? or perhaps as a reminder to the yoofs of what boats used to look like?

... the 420 is a dinosaur from another age, just like the oppie, mirror, 470, topper, finn, star, yngling, hobie 16, and even the laser is pretty aged. (worrying how many of these remain olympic classes).

.. now all these are very popular and I don't dispute offer excellent fleet racing, tuning and training and have excellent class assoc's - I offer no argument to these points, I will even concede that in the right conditions they are (relatively) exciting... but I just can't see another sport where youngsters who aspire to the top are given such ancient tools to practice on...

... it must turn yoof sailors off (or at least it did until some genius came in with the 29er), if you turned up to a cycle road-racing event this weekend as a 14yr old and were given a 1950's bike you'd be pretty miffed, especially if someone parked a 2000's carbon racing machine near you, or if a 12yr old turned up to go-karting to find a collection of 60's-70's throw-back machines parked on the grid - "sorry kids, no pretending to be Lewis Hamilton today, who's heard of Sterling Moss or Jackie Stewart?"

....I like the 29er, but what I'd like to see is a yoof single hander that really set the pace going ... something like a lighter hull-weight, smaller rig Blaze? or a "winged" light-weight Vareo type thing with an assy? ... I'm guessing some thing that will perform on a pond as well as be stable but still relatively high performance for open water will go down well, wings, flexi-rigs and open cockpits are also bound to be popular?  I actually think that there are a few yoof sailable cats that look the part, and a few two-handers, but strangely no "high performance" single handers.....heck, what about a small rig version of the RS600, then they could get some practice in helming from the wire and dream about i14's, Cherubs, RS800's, 49ers and the like - much more likely to get the pulse racing than a 420, Laser Radial or a Topper

Originally posted by turnturtle so it has to be a post millennium design to be exciting to sail...?  it has to have an asymmetric to make it appealing...? those 300+ kids as the oppy nationals are all fools for liking their boats... I'd assume they'll be 500+ competitors if they sailed something 'newer'....? all those 'youths' racing mirrors, cadets, 420's having a great time with friends, family and a sport they can enjoy throughout their life... not to mention the team racing youth in those fireflies, laser 2's and larks... they're all wasters too, destined to fall from grace because ISAF promote classes with global appeal rather than concerning themselves with the sycophantic elite, who emulate anything that they see on the latest smack my bitch up, down under with the bethwaite bible and schooner of toohey's skiff video..... I think you have point regarding a singlehander alternative to the laser/radial but in all fairness this will only ever be a niche of a wider market the same way the 29er is a niche in its.

1) it should be a post millenium design and be exciting to sail, what's wrong with progress?
2) an assy wouldn't hurt the appeal!
3) I don't think they're wasters, or deluding themselves, but I doubt any of them go to the dinghy show and look at the latest oppy/420/laser radial XDSXLSRL (whatever) and think "wow", whereas I bet they look at the i14's, Canoes, N12's, Merlins, 505's, MPS etc... and think "wow, one day I'd love one of those"
4) if a high performance single hander achieves the same niche as the 29er then that would be great... why should sailing on your own limit you to choosing a 'boring' class of boat?