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What classes will survive ?

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Philsy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 11:07am
I'm not sure I'm good enough for a 600!

Solution looks nice, but bit of a gamble getting something unestablished,
maybe?

I do still like the idea of an asymmetric though...


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Post Options Post Options   Quote GBR884 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 11:12am

I came from a laser then brief period in the back of a 4000 (with alot of swimming!) to my 600 and i spent alot of time swimming in the first few months but now i am loving every minute of it!!

Maybe its a gamble but i dont know how many they have sold. There was a fair few people at the last open.....I think!? Edit: there was 17 at the nationals and at the last open there was 10 boats.

What about an assy vortex? They suck abit in light winds but when you get abit of wind they are good fun because they are so stable yet still fairly fast.



Edited by GBR884
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 12:36pm
Regarding the RS range, the big attraction certainly in the early days, was the huge events and great camaradarie. Unfortunately once RS diversified into every imaginable type of boat (except cats), venues could no longer accommodate all the classes and slowly but surely the class loyalty has worn off as the fleets have seperated. The 300s, 600s & 700s used to enjoy the visual delights of the female crews from the 200s 400s and 800s but no more sharing events means singlehander events tend to be male only and the evening socials have become a bit bland. The RS association used to control all the classes but this has now been split so there is an association per class, which you would expect to improve the situation but unfortunately it hasnt really.

I like the proposal to group alike boats together to form a loose controlled class but its likely that a company preferring long production runs would have to adapt to constant development or risk dying out, and frankly I cant see RS putting themselves in that position.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote IanW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 12:41pm
I would have thought that Ovington taking on the rights to the solution would be a good thing for the lon term future of the class.  They have not been involved in many dud's 59er aside.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Philsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by GBR884

Yeah solutions look really nice, I know one guy with
two!!


They seem like really nice boats. What kind of budget do you have
because that will depend on the quality and "competitiveness" of which boat
you choose?



As little as possible! Maybe around £3k
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by craiggo


I like the proposal to group alike boats together to form a loose controlled class but its likely that a company preferring long production runs would have to adapt to constant development or risk dying out, and frankly I cant see RS putting themselves in that position.


Anyone can set up a circuit like the Scottish Skiff Racing circuit and get good racing between like boats, however it is still handicap racing.

If you mean having a "Class" of various boats and racing off scratch then the longest, widest boat with biggest rags will always win. Without some quite complex rules to control the important factors in boat speed it is not going to work.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 1:08pm

Perhaps it would be interesting to try and establish what qualities a class needs for a healthy and long life.

I don't think just being a development class is enough ...

For example the Merlin Rocket is very healthy after looking a bit shakey against the RS400 in the late 90's. Thay will have 100 boats at Saclome and hit the 80 limit on their nationals months ago ...

Then of course we have the poor old N12 that is struggling against the RS200 which gets huge turn outs.

If it was a dev. class v smod issue then you'd expect the Merlins & 12s to have faired the same against the RS400 & 200 but they are very different.

What qualities make a class survive?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 1:16pm
Well in a development class, you need either rules that don't pigeon hole the
class and / or members that are proactive and have enough vision at pivotal
points in a classes history to change those rules.

It's a shame that the N12 has been a bit of a stick in the mud at important
points in it's history on both counts, this is leading to there current
difficulties.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 2:30pm

what does a class need for be sucessful?

that i can think of,
well attended circuit
good relationship between builder and class
enthuthsiasm (sorry for poor spelling)
newcomers to the class (i.e appeal)

you cant say a development class is always sucessful. the laser has sold over 200,000 boats. one design but very sucessful.

heres an interesting question i have been thinking about. would the RS classes be better off with an association independent of LDC? does it make a difference?

in fact, what makes a sucessful class, the boat itself or the people and class association. i would say the latter.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dics Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by tmoore

heres an interesting question i have been thinking about. would the RS classes be better off with an association independent of LDC? does it make a difference?

If you're refering the 300 element then it is independant to the builder LDC. The thing is that many people in the CA and those in the 300 fleet who have influence are in LDC pockets so it seems like they are not. Hence the damn right refusal, no, no-way, get lost, sailors are not entitled to opinions and all the other bull that came from that corner an a subject not so long ago.

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