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What classes will survive ?

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Laser 173312 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 9:05am

Originally posted by G.R.F

I can't see RS going away, but they need some other boat to rejuvenate their fleets imo.

I have to say that as I see it part of the problem with RS is they are always adding other boats in to their range aimed at similar targets. E.G. The 200 and Vareo seem to be targeting the same people. Dito 600 & 700.

Laser did the same thing with the Dart 16 replacing the 15, although that doesn't seem to of worked as the Sprint 15 has kept going, where as there does not seem to be much interest in the Dart 16.

The traditional boats (Ent, N12 Laser etc.) seem to keep going and I think the high techs have got to change to remain high techs. I'm just not sure what happens with the medium tech boats, those in the Fireball target type.

 



Edited by Laser 173312
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 9:26am
I really must sit down with the stats I have and try and plot a SMOD class lifespan...

If new boat sales stop a class is usually going to be toast, even though there may be enough boats about to keep it going for quite a while. Usually the remaining boats get rattier and rattier until few people ant to sail them. However when a class offers something special it can run for years with few or no new boats. The Thames Raters are an obvious extreme example, with a steady small niche which seems to be enough to keep the majority of boats in action, plus the huge advantage that the managing club has the facilities to keep unused boats in store under cover, not rotting away in the corner of a dinghy park...

The RS300 sees to me a boat that could run with small numbers, I'm not so sure about many of the others. The feeling on the street seem sto be that the RS400 has stopped selling - you only have to look at how many recent numbers turn up at Opens. Unfortunately RS don't contribute the numbers to the racing class reviews, and I have doubts whether the sail number allocation is contiguous.

Two handers see in general to be a bit problematic. Maybe its just where I sail though. There are a lot of people at my club who in general like two handers but are stuck with finding a suitable boat/crew combination so have ended up with a variety of singlehanders. The RS400 has more or less died where I am (two active boats from a dozen) in spite of it being ideal for the water and no obvious alternative in sight.

So far on turnouts at least there is no sign of the Musto skiff outselling the 700, for all the talk you see here!

Edited by JimC
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 9:48am

 I’ve long felt that either of the following would be good for sailing and a way of controlling the plethora of classes that we have in this country. Either…

 

Get away from handicap racing and move over to class racing. I don’t mean all sail the same boat but all sail a boat to an agreed standard. For example a Large single trapeze asymmetric class might put 4000’s, ISO’s, Alto’s etc together, small might have 3000’s, Buzzes, Vago’s etc We then get larger fleets, yes the bad boats would slip out the bottom but the good ones would have a much healthier target to aim for.

 

Or

 

After five years any new boat design becomes the property of its class association. That way if it needs bringing up to date it can be. If the manufacturer isn’t supporting the class the way the owners would like then a new supplier can be found. It would force the manufacturers to either do a better job or at least think seriously about the potential for a new boat before introducing it.

 

Or at least that’s what I think!

 

Ian

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Post Options Post Options   Quote scullyman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 10:07am

I think that's a really good comment, but would be interested to see the impact it would have on manufacturers' costs in terms of absorbing the initial production spend (and I know nothing about boat building so please feel free to let me know if it's done in the first ten boats!).

Coming back to the earlier point... and I know it's largely ignored but - Topper, obsolete?  Can't see it at the moment.  The Topper has one great strength which is that, fundamentally, it's awesome.  If (what was) Topper International had just concentrated on marketing particularly for the Topper but also for the other decent boats in their stable rather than focusing on producing new-fangled bits of junk they'd have been on a permanent roll.



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chrisg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 10:20am

Originally posted by turnturtle

I don't think the 300 will disappear... but it might lose some of its
SMODiness if the class can take it outside the of the LDC clutches.... the
Rooster sail which isn't class legal at events at the mo, offers excellent
value for money (over 35% off the Hyde/LDC rip off) and claims better
longevity than the official sail.   

It would be good to see the class's owner accept it's a dinghy in a
resurgence and open up the playing field a bit to keep the momentum
going.... a nice carbon boom for example and those foils could probably
be looked at 10 years on.

IMO the ideal scenario would be to let Ovington's just get on with it in
their own right and market it alongside the B14 as part of their range of
performance hiking machines.... but I guess IP won't allow for that.

I wholeheartedly agree James but can't see it happening unfortunately. This has been discussed on the 300 class bulletin board (something else that could do with updating in this modern day and age), and there was a rather blunt reply from someone high up in rs class association. Probably a good choice going for the phantom, as much as i love my 300 I am seriously considering joining you....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Philsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 10:26am
As someone who's tempted by a Vareo, this thread worries me.

What's the alternative? There aren't many modern singlehanders with an asymmetric - and that's what appeals to me.

Phil
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GBR884 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GBR884 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 10:50am

Originally posted by Philsy

As someone who's tempted by a Vareo, this thread worries me.

What's the alternative? There aren't many modern singlehanders with an asymmetric - and that's what appeals to me.

Phil

It depends whether you want to be doing handicap racing or not? For handiap racing dont bother but for general sailing around in its not too bad. When i was choosing a boat i originally wanted a vareo as it had the kite and looked more exciting than a laser. But after sailing one it really wasn't very good so i bought a 600 as it was a lot nicer to sail and we have a reasonable fleet at Alton so it depends what you want from it.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Philsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 10:53am
Thanks, I was looking at it for handicap racing, which is mainly what my
club does. The only singlehanders there are Lasers, which I'm not keen on,
or Solos.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote GBR884 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 11:01am

Yeah dont get one then!! The only reason i liked my laser was because there was always someone to race against!! I've never sailed a solo so i can't really comment on them. But does it have to be hiker because i found that when i compared the 600 to a vareo it was a bigger challenge, faster and had a bigger grin factor!! If you dont mind a steep learning curve theres a really good bunch of guys on the circuit and its soo much fun!!

Or what about a contender? The new ones look really nice!! 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote GBR884 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 08 at 11:07am

Yeah solutions look really nice, I know one guy with two!!

They seem like really nice boats. What kind of budget do you have because that will depend on the quality and "competitiveness" of which boat you choose?

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