Proper Course

   Personally I would say it is TS to the boat that was to windward, this would be a simple winward leeward situation if it came to protest. The fact that the windward boat wanted to hoist his kite to bear away is pretty much irreleavnt, he bore away in to the right of way boat. As long as the pole on the 4000 was in the appropriate position for the leg being sailed (ie it the pole was out the kite was up or being hoisted) then it does nt matter how the over was eastablished. 

I am not sure of the rule that covers this but it does say something like the boat that is too leeward 'shall not sail above their proper course'. There is also another rile that says a boat ahead shall not sail below their proper course unless they immediately gybe.

i appreciate the other boat say that their proper course was to bear away but they could not because the leeward boat had established an overlap...

As I said at the begiunning it sounds like a simple winward leeward to me. The 'leading boat' should have gone high and then bourne away to hoist.

Just my 2p, if it is wrong I am sure the other rules 'gurus' here will correct me.

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jeffers Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeffers Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Proper Course Posted: 25 Feb 08 at 11:23am
	Personally I would say it is TS to the boat that was to windward, this would be a simple winward leeward situation if it came to protest. The fact that the windward boat wanted to hoist his kite to bear away is pretty much irreleavnt, he bore away in to the right of way boat. As long as the pole on the 4000 was in the appropriate position for the leg being sailed (ie it the pole was out the kite was up or being hoisted) then it does nt matter how the over was eastablished. I am not sure of the rule that covers this but it does say something like the boat that is too leeward 'shall not sail above their proper course'. There is also another rile that says a boat ahead shall not sail below their proper course unless they immediately gybe. i appreciate the other boat say that their proper course was to bear away but they could not because the leeward boat had established an overlap... As I said at the begiunning it sounds like a simple winward leeward to me. The 'leading boat' should have gone high and then bourne away to hoist. Just my 2p, if it is wrong I am sure the other rules 'gurus' here will correct me.
	Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74

redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Feb 08 at 11:23pm
	Yes but on the other hand the overlap was established by pushing the pole out. As for boat lengths the rear boat may well have still been in the 2 boat lengths circle (but he was the outside boat) and anyway we were sailing away from the mark.

Lukepiewalker Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1341	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lukepiewalker Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Feb 08 at 10:47pm
	Depends on many things, were they still within the mark rounding zone? If the boat was behind and to leeward then they had rights (as long as there wasn't still a water situation applying). Beyond that it's a question of whether the the overlap was gained from clear astern or not. It sounds like the front boat bore down on the rear boat, which sounds like the wrong boats did turns to me. I don't think there is any obligation to give someone room to bear away and hoist their kite....
	Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"

redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Feb 08 at 9:41pm
	Here's one to ponder. Gybe mark, two asymmetrics one behind the other. The second boat delays his gybe by half a boat length so that he ends up to leeward but behind the front one who then bears away to hoist his kite resulting in a collision with the rear one who has by this time already got his pole deployed and overlapping the front one. The boat at the front claims he needs room, the boat behind claims the leader has sailed low causing the collision. The leading boat says he would be able to sail that low if the rear boat had not put his pole out into his path. The rear boat says he is sailing his proper course because being 2 man he doesn't have to bear away as much to hoist. Needless to say the rear boat was a 4000 which has a very long pole. It was all solved in good humour as the contact was merely the pole of the rear boat and the legs of the leading boat's helm, and the rear boat did a quick 720 in lightish winds. But thinking about it, was that necessary?