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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Sep 23 at 10:49am
Originally posted by eric_c

Maybe being a UK-wide class isn't top of everyone's agenda.

Which is fair enough. The Thames Raters have basically been confined to two clubs some thirty miles apart on the same river for about the last century and seem stable enough. But if you're a medium to large scale boat builder you're not going to want to be bothered with a class that's of no interest to three quarters of the sailing population.



Edited by JimC - 22 Sep 23 at 10:59am
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 23 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by eric_c

Maybe being a UK-wide class isn't top of everyone's agenda.

Which is fair enough. The Thames Raters have basically been confined to two clubs some thirty miles apart on the same river for about the last century and seem stable enough. But if you're a medium to large scale boat builder you're not going to want to be bothered with a class that's of no interest to three quarters of the sailing population.


Is any one class actually 'of interest' to more than 10% of the UK sailing population? Even if you re-phrase that as 10% of the UK dinghy racing population, most people are not interested in many classes, beyond everyone havign a laugh at the expense of Laser/ILCA politics. A medium scale boat builder, like say Ovington, is pretty interested in classes where they sell a dozen or 50 a year. There are actually big numbers of people actively sailing in the UK, we may whine about numbers but it's still tens of thousands on an average Sunday, so a 50+ Nationals is a fraction of a % of participation.

The other thing is, beyond about 30 boats, I've never noticed events actually being a better competitor experience just by adding more boats. It may be good for bragging rights, and a few fixed costs get split more ways, but chasing scale is often a mug's game.It can be the same from an organiser's perspective, run a tidy event of a comfortable size, make a few quid, everyone is happy. Spread yourselves thin, sell yourself short?
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 23 at 7:24am
There could be an argument that Nationals and Open Meetings are not a good reflection of the health of a class, but in the case of opens a reflection of a lack of local club class racing and in the case of nationals, a lack of a strong open meeting circuit.

Look down a typical “strong” class national championship entry list and it will comprise of sail makers, boat builders, people sailing under RYA, journey men, hit men sailing multiple classes many of whom rarely participate on the club scene or at open meetings.

And some national championships represent the only time many owners get to race in a reasonable size fleet, more of an opportunity for a get together of a disparate class.
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 23 at 7:57am
David I have to disagree with the statement about a strong champs entry being full of effectively pro sailors.

The scorpion champs for one was won by a corinthian team this year who have sailed the class for decades. Sure, there are sailmakers and boat builders in there but why is that a put off or a problem? They're as entitled to sail as we are :)

Do they do club racing? Part of the problem here is - if the open circuit is strong and you live within reach - you don't really get time at weekends and over the winter there are now enough events and series to do the same. 
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 23 at 10:31am
I didn’t say all the sailors in a fleet are pro, and to be honest I would hate these guys not to show up.  But if club racing is healthy there is little incentive to travel.  If you look at the club’s many open meeting circuit sailors sail at, there is often little club racing for the class concerned.  I am making an observation rather than a criticism.

Interesting that the Supernova seems to get really big turn outs with very little pro participation 
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 23 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

I didn’t say all the sailors in a fleet are pro, and to be honest I would hate these guys not to show up.  But if club racing is healthy there is little incentive to travel.  If you look at the club’s many open meeting circuit sailors sail at, there is often little club racing for the class concerned.  I am making an observation rather than a criticism.
Interesting that the Supernova seems to get really big turn outs with very little pro participation 


My home clubs have very healthy club racing with classes racing in good number within handicap races.

My choice to do opens and Nationals has so much more to it than what is available or not at home.

Not least seeing mates of similar physique and mindset who I have known for many years.

That’s why i loathe the forecast based non attendance….it’s not just about the racing.

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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 23 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

I didn’t say all the sailors in a fleet are pro, and to be honest I would hate these guys not to show up.  But if club racing is healthy there is little incentive to travel.  If you look at the club’s many open meeting circuit sailors sail at, there is often little club racing for the class concerned.  I am making an observation rather than a criticism.

Interesting that the Supernova seems to get really big turn outs with very little pro participation 

Sorry thats how I read it :)

Comment about the supernovas - is that because there is little incentive? Beyond the supplier theres no scope for selling anything really.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 23 at 8:46am
Supernovas was more of an observation.  Different folks different strokes.  For me, I enjoy sailing with the pros, I want to measure myself against the very best.  Others might prefer racing against those with the same experiences.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 23 at 10:50am
Originally posted by sargesail

That’s why i loathe the forecast based non attendance….it’s not just about the racing.

100% hard agree - it literally killed any enthusiasm for travel when I was back in the UK.

I'd spend weeks looking forward to an event I'd carefully crafted my social calendar to acconodate, only to spend the final 72 hours madly prepping a boat (in itself a 3 hour round trip) against a forecast that I acknowledged was at best lame, at worst, unassailable... and the truth, if I went, which I usually did, it was NEVER unsailable, but numbers were definitely down on what they could have been and it made conversations around critical mass an inevitable consideration.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 23 at 11:56am
Yep, yesterday was sailing in an open event where every weather forecast app indicated it would be unsailable due to too high winds.  RO held nerve and went ahead.  Ten of us out of 38 entered went out and had great racing, breezy but never overwhelming.  I suspect the other 28 stayed away based on the forecast, their loss.
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