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    Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 7:05am
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by hotpunter

Originally posted by NickA

I think our overheads are too big.
But I just paid £50 for the Bala long distance ( includes a cut to the 3rd party event organisers I suppose).


Hmmmm I think this is more a "time and place" thing than anything. Sailracer tracking at championships is very good, it's a useful training tool and provides interest away from the event. People do - believe it or not - log on and watch. Its really good for sponsor coverage and helps bring in more money to the event. In my experience in that environment the Sailracer fee easily pays for itself, but without knowing the ins and outs you dont see it.

I can take the point that at a smaller event it's overkill. £50 is a pretty punchy entry fee for a two day event for times gone by. But I cant see it being a hugely profitable exercise for either party in the current climate.

At class championships the tracker may have a place but for open mixed events it offers little to the average paying competitor. Keen ones have long used their own means to track their progress by smart watches or similar if training was their goal. Sponsor coverage irrelevant for this event as there were none. Yes it was a small entry with forecasted weather playing a part, but lead in promotion from the ‘promoter’ was dire given the cut they take. Who then watches tracking of an event they don’t know is on? Who enters?

The Bala SC team were excellent and put on another top event as they do. An army of volunteers, a testing course, good race and safety management, everyone well fed and the cheapest bar prices in the land. All sadly top loaded by a third party that possibly made many think twice I would guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 6:47am
Originally posted by hotpunter

Originally posted by NickA

I think our overheads are too big.
But I just paid £50 for the Bala long distance ( includes a cut to the 3rd party event organisers I suppose).

£50 for both single and double handed entries with a not insignificant % of that fee straight to a third party? 
No problem in paying out for what an event costs when hard working member clubs like Bala get the full return on their efforts. Can’t say I’m enthused by third party ‘organisers’ offering minimal event promotion, novelty tracking and little to the wider sailing group looking to get back travelling to events, outside of a small few at the sharp end. 


£50 for a two day long distance event is very reasonable,  particularly given the ever increasing fuel costs.  With a five mile course the ribs would have burnt through quite a few gallons.  The tracking played a valuable role in the safety of the event,  providing a location of all boats in real time,  which is very important as difficult for the PRO/safety to see all boats over the whole of the course at all times, particularly when there was poor visibility in the squalls. We also could see when people had capsized on the screen and relay to the safety fleet.   


SailRacer also covered the costs of event photography with Tim Olin
 https://enter.sailracer.org/eventsites//photo_gallery.asp?eventid=222604


Edited by Simon Lovesey - 28 Jun 22 at 7:04am
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NickA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 6:37am
Agree, I don't think the third party organisation adds anything.

I guess the idea is that people sign up for the whole series .. but in practice most people pick one, or a few, events and do only those. The idea to create a multiclass traveller series is sound, but it hasn't happened.

I'd expected a huge turnout at Bala and it didn't materialise (weather forecast in part). The only thing the third party added was GPS tracking and a website for results etc ... which doesn't work very well ( where are the GPS tracks?). Bala might be better going it alone.

We ran a "sail racer" event at my club once .. still had to provide all the safety cover, ROs, Results officer etc etc. It cost us as much as running any other open and we didn't get many extra entries ... a financial loss for the club and for sail racer.

Bala was a fun event though, due to the location and the club galley mostly. But a lot of packing and driving for essentially a few hours sailing. Jav euros next .. even more travelling, but 16 races and the only chance to race many other Javelins.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 22 at 6:27am
Originally posted by hotpunter

Originally posted by NickA

I think our overheads are too big.
But I just paid £50 for the Bala long distance ( includes a cut to the 3rd party event organisers I suppose).

£50 for both single and double handed entries with a not insignificant % of that fee straight to a third party? 
No problem in paying out for what an event costs when hard working member clubs like Bala get the full return on their efforts. Can’t say I’m enthused by third party ‘organisers’ offering minimal event promotion, novelty tracking and little to the wider sailing group looking to get back travelling to events, outside of a small few at the sharp end. 


Hmmmm I think this is more a "time and place" thing than anything. Sailracer tracking at championships is very good, it's a useful training tool and provides interest away from the event. People do - believe it or not - log on and watch. Its really good for sponsor coverage and helps bring in more money to the event. In my experience in that environment the Sailracer fee easily pays for itself, but without knowing the ins and outs you dont see it.

I can take the point that at a smaller event it's overkill. £50 is a pretty punchy entry fee for a two day event for times gone by. But I cant see it being a hugely profitable exercise for either party in the current climate.


Edited by Paramedic - 28 Jun 22 at 6:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hotpunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 22 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by NickA

I think our overheads are too big.
But I just paid £50 for the Bala long distance ( includes a cut to the 3rd party event organisers I suppose).

£50 for both single and double handed entries with a not insignificant % of that fee straight to a third party? 
No problem in paying out for what an event costs when hard working member clubs like Bala get the full return on their efforts. Can’t say I’m enthused by third party ‘organisers’ offering minimal event promotion, novelty tracking and little to the wider sailing group looking to get back travelling to events, outside of a small few at the sharp end. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by The Moo

Originally posted by Grumpycat



I really love the off the water side of doing opens and national events But as a very average club , I just got fed up always being a the bottom third of the fleet all the time  . Yes I know it I had persisted with it I would of got better but at that time I was working shifts and a lot of overtime too so it was just too much trouble . 
These day I am sort of retired and I have the time but at nearly 60 no longer any interest . It’s just easier to work as shore crew for my wife as this means I can drink more with out have to worry about sailing the next day lol .
On the other hand since retirement , my interest in club sailing as never been higher . Am sailing every Wednesday and Sunday I can plus am even doing some pleasure sailing on the odd Saturday ( something I have never done in 30+ years of sailing .) 
It’s amazing what having some extra free time  and a boat that totally for filled everything your have been looking for in a singlehanded, to make you enjoy sailing . Big smile




Lucky you I say. Since I retired I seem to be doing less sailing than at anytime since I was a kid.

In my world there is always someone (or something) ready to steal my time.

You have to defend that time ... my family know that Saturday 12.00 to 18.00 is allocated 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Grumpycat



I really love the off the water side of doing opens and national events But as a very average club , I just got fed up always being a the bottom third of the fleet all the time  . Yes I know it I had persisted with it I would of got better but at that time I was working shifts and a lot of overtime too so it was just too much trouble . 
These day I am sort of retired and I have the time but at nearly 60 no longer any interest . It’s just easier to work as shore crew for my wife as this means I can drink more with out have to worry about sailing the next day lol .
On the other hand since retirement , my interest in club sailing as never been higher . Am sailing every Wednesday and Sunday I can plus am even doing some pleasure sailing on the odd Saturday ( something I have never done in 30+ years of sailing .) 
It’s amazing what having some extra free time  and a boat that totally for filled everything your have been looking for in a singlehanded, to make you enjoy sailing . Big smile




Lucky you I say. Since I retired I seem to be doing less sailing than at anytime since I was a kid.

In my world there is always someone (or something) ready to steal my time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 22 at 1:13pm
I'll be joining you next year in the retirement sailing stakes. Sailing school assistant Thursday afternoons, sundowner series Saturday afternoon /  evening, Proper racing Sundays, Never had the time to go wandering around doing opens, other than very local ones. 

Now I'm too decrepit, sleeping bags, tent's  etc are not suitable any more, so it still will be local opens only, and luckily there are around 20 clubs within 50 miles..

Most opens I attend will be our own, the club hosts half a dozen down river opens, the dinghy and keel boat open weekends, The 3 Rivers Race and of course our regatta week of which 5 days are an open ( 1st -5th Aug 2022 on the river at Horning https://youtu.be/GGCZ_AeyB3M )


Admittedly it not class racing, but at one time you could sail every single day in Norfolk and North Suffolk throughout the School summer holidays by going from club regatta to club regatta..

Just had a look there's one week, and a couple of days this year where there isn't an open, and some weeks there is a choice.


Edited by The Q - 14 Jun 22 at 1:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 8:14pm
I really love the off the water side of doing opens and national events But as a very average club , I just got fed up always being a the bottom third of the fleet all the time  . Yes I know it I had persisted with it I would of got better but at that time I was working shifts and a lot of overtime too so it was just too much trouble . 
These day I am sort of retired and I have the time but at nearly 60 no longer any interest . It’s just easier to work as shore crew for my wife as this means I can drink more with out have to worry about sailing the next day lol .
On the other hand since retirement , my interest in club sailing as never been higher . Am sailing every Wednesday and Sunday I can plus am even doing some pleasure sailing on the odd Saturday ( something I have never done in 30+ years of sailing .) 
It’s amazing what having some extra free time  and a boat that totally for filled everything your have been looking for in a singlehanded, to make you enjoy sailing . Big smile


Edited by Grumpycat - 13 Jun 22 at 8:17pm
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NickA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 22 at 7:02pm
This year I'll be doing the Bala long distance (Jav helm),  Javelin Euros (crew), Osprey Nationals (crew) and Contender inlands.  Already did the 3000 nationals but that was at my own club.  I'd do more but have other interests too and still working.

Last I looked Bala had 130 entries; osprey nationals last year had 48 (?) so 96 sailors.  Contender inlands last year had 25.  Javelin events bar the euros are almost dead, 3000 events = one a year with a handful of boats.  

43 boats at that excellent sounding Blaze event ... not too shabby.

All very class and event dependent.

I like doing opens - good to sail against similar boats and/or do big or different venues - but feel I'm class switching to find them and maybe the last saddo who won't leave the party!  Back in the day the Javelins would hold a 20 boat + event every other weekend all summer (I'm told!) repleat with drunken antics and skinny dipping (there are photos).
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