New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Square tops
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Square tops
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 13>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
eric_c View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 21 Jan 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Square tops
    Posted: 09 Jun 22 at 4:19pm
Difference between that and the H2 is not so much the angle of the very top, but more the chord at say 80% height, which on the H2 looks to be a very big % of the foot?
Or in other words, the H2 sail is a big % area of luff x foot ?
Nearly a rectangle?

I suspect what matters is developing the whole thing to work together, mast, sail, battens, other controls, not just picking the best planform.

Sailmakers have learned a lot across dozens of classes and dozens of yearly iterations in some of those classes, so radically moving away from what we know works pretty well is a big risk.
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 22 at 4:24pm
it's a classy looking boat still Mike... especially in when they have a bit of space to literally stretch those legs.
Back to Top
Grumpycat View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 29 Sep 20
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 22 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

The most recent Blaze sails are made by Hartley 'in-house' - and are cosmetically more of a 'square-top' than the pre-existing North one.  The informal talk within the class has suggested that they are 'better' for the lighter crews in the fleet (esp in higher breeze) as they do shed power more easily - however the results are still mostly inconclusive and very mixed.   At my own weight (80ish KG) they seem almost identical in terms of performance - but as times go on the newer sails will no doubt dominate the front as the North supplied ones age. 
   

National Championships 2023
Mike , looks like the top batten is different? If it is , that’s a little more than ‘ cosmetic’ .  Smile
Back to Top
Cirrus View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 29 Oct 15
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 22 at 2:48pm
looks like the top batten is different? If it is , that’s a little more than ‘ cosmetic’


As it makes damn all difference to performance either way it's main real benefit may be that it is apparently lower cost to produce..  Some like the darker material, some do not...  This picture was taken about a year ago and today about 50+% of boats at Stone SC currently for the Nationals will most likely sport a 'new' version  (10th to 12th inclusive).  At my weight I cannot see any advantage/disadvantage against a 12 month old North - I'm lucky as I like both sails equally. ... But erm .....slightly maybe less lucky in that I have to be at a wedding tomorrow !!


Edited by Cirrus - 10 Jun 22 at 2:48pm
Back to Top
Grumpycat View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 29 Sep 20
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 22 at 4:50pm
Err its still a change to the sail plan which I am sure you all voted on , because it’s not like Hartleys have any past history of imposing changes on the classes they own whether the class wants it or not is it  LOL Wink

Edited by Grumpycat - 10 Jun 22 at 4:51pm
Back to Top
Sussex Lad View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jun 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 22 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Cirrus

looks like the top batten is different? If it is , that’s a little more than ‘ cosmetic’


As it makes damn all difference to performance


Another alteration to the Blaze that makes no difference to performance? There's been a few of them over the last 12 years or so. LOL 

Without mentioning the elephant in the room (it start with P and ends with Y) it's difficult to discuss this any further I guess Wink

Quick question that's been asked before: When does a one design become a development class?
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 22 at 10:21am
Moderate improvements:, voted on democratically by the class in a open and honest manner … what’s not to like?
Back to Top
Sussex Lad View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jun 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 22 at 10:31am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Moderate improvements:, voted on democratically by the class in a open and honest manner … what’s not to like?


Absolutely, no quibble with that at all and I think its's a great little boat

......it's that the litany "no improvement to performance" is getting a little predictable.  Who knows? it may well be true in this case.

Maybe I'm just getting old and cynical LOL

It would be interesting to see a list of modifications (I'll not call them improvements Wink) since Topper dropped it........again, I'm getting old and I've lost count.

Edited by Sussex Lad - 11 Jun 22 at 10:34am
Back to Top
Grumpycat View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 29 Sep 20
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 22 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Moderate improvements:, voted on democratically by the class in a open and honest manner … what’s not to like?

Totally agree with you , that doesn’t happen often does it  LOL. All one design have to adapt or die/ or become a niche boat. 

But the thing is not all moderate improvements are voted on democratically by a class in a open and honest manner. 
1) Some are just waved though by a class. ( which is not necessary wrong )
2) Some are forced on a class by a manufacturer that owns the design rights. Like the new mk3 cockpit design on Lightning 368 or the weight change to the Supernova. Don’t get me wrong , I am not saying the changes were wrong just the fact the class had no control over the change .  
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 22 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

 

Quick question that's been asked before: When does a one design become a development class?


When individuals are able to make changes to hull, rig, foils etc without needing a class vote.  You can’t put any mast you like on a Blaze, or any sail, or indeed any sailmaker.  You can’t put a different rudder on the back.  You can’t design your hull or pick your builder.  Name a class that has never updated anything?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 13>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy