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eric_c View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Jun 22 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

The Blaze keeps getting mentioned here ... and not necessarily by its owners !  Funny that - might make you think that its got something going for it.   A very different paradigm of course.  My summary ? - It would be a very boring world if we all liked the same things- I'm personally happy that people sail or race anything frankly..  Most Blaze owners refrain from comparing it to other approaches here because it is so different.

...


When we go PY racing, we inevitably end up comparing with other classes.
Blaze seems like a fairly useful benchmark.
Not new, but not really 'oldskool'.                        
Not a particularly heavy or light person's boat.                 
Enough of them about that most have sailed against them.                  
In the right PY group to be on a lot of people's radar.                                    
There's not actually very many una rig s/h classes which tick all those boxes


I just raised it as being a fair example of a big curved roach rig, midway between the Phantom and the H2 conceptually.                       
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 22 at 3:07pm
The Harrier rig was
a) awful
and
b) smaller than the Phantom.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 22 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by JimC

The Harrier rig was
a) awful
and
b) smaller than the Phantom.


It was 50 years ago!  Hull shape looks quite nice. Don't mention the weight!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 22 at 3:31pm
No, it was awful for 50 years ago too. Untapered mast, Solo sail planform with a extension above the top batten, we knew better even then too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 22 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by JimC

No, it was awful for 50 years ago too. Untapered mast, Solo sail planform with a extension above the top batten, we knew better even then too.



Fair comment, I sometimes tend to forget most of the junk I remember from the 70s was made in the 60s. Some of it before the 60s.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 22 at 8:26am
H2 - it wasn't a criticism; no need to be quite so defensive.

FWIW, I quite like the look of a square top sail; and if someone can tell me why it's a performance benefit, I'd happily believe them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 22 at 8:46am
Originally posted by turnturtle

H2 - it wasn't a criticism; no need to be quite so defensive.

FWIW, I quite like the look of a square top sail; and if someone can tell me why it's a performance benefit, I'd happily believe them.
If someone offered me one which worked as well as H2 says in a breeze, but also outperformed Phantoms in the light stuff, I'd be tempted.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 22 at 8:59am
Main benefit I can see in a racing situation is it might not capsize so much, plus more likely to catch slightly clearer air at the top of the sail over someone with a standard sail.   
Would keeping a better look out for gusts remove need for flat top? I look out for gusts hoping for a lift.
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mozzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 22 at 10:40am
The 800 square top is quite interesting, as it was fairly openly done purely for aesthetics. In that there was a specific design brief to not be slower than the pin head, but also not make the pin head uncompetitive. 

I think in theory a square top should be a good idea for dinghies for a given mast height. In light winds when you have more RM than power you can generate lift up high where there is usually more wind and cleaner winds. Then when the breeze pick up and you have all the power you RM can balance you can dramatically lose power from up high, which lowers the CoE in sails which allows your available RM to hold down more power. 

In practice, generating power up high in light winds may sound great, but is limited by tip losses. If you force the wind to do something hard where nearby there is an option to just go around, it will usually just do that. Similar to setting a really deep foot and them all the wind dropping out under the boom. Obviously the theory to elliptical sail shapes is to taper off toward the tip as it becomes increasingly inefficient to try and generate lift toward the end. 

If you could end plate the sail against the deck, and put wind lets on the head then it would be really nice... but both are impractical in many cases.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 22 at 4:04pm
The most recent Blaze sails are made by Hartley 'in-house' - and are cosmetically more of a 'square-top' than the pre-existing North one.  The informal talk within the class has suggested that they are 'better' for the lighter crews in the fleet (esp in higher breeze) as they do shed power more easily - however the results are still mostly inconclusive and very mixed.   At my own weight (80ish KG) they seem almost identical in terms of performance - but as times go on the newer sails will no doubt dominate the front as the North supplied ones age. 
   

National Championships 2023


Edited by Cirrus - 09 Jun 22 at 4:05pm
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