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eric_c View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 May 22 at 7:25am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

No one is asking you to abandon your beliefs I was asking you to understand an alternative perspective.

Can you understand?

I think relating any problems in some RYA clubs to a media tour by some royal cling-ons  is quite tenuous.
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 22 at 7:45am
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

No one is asking you to abandon your beliefs I was asking you to understand an alternative perspective.

Can you understand?

I am also not a lover of the Royal family , they will have to change to be more like Scandinavian royal if they want to continue going forward, but I am really not sure it has any relivence to the larger topics of attracting people of all classes and creeds into sailing clubs ( I’ve never been asked to toast the queen at a sailing club , I wouldn’t anyway and no one at my club would  be upset with me for doing that . ) 
Re the names of club officials, what would you rather have ,  MD, CEO, Maintenance director/ officer? They can still be looked on as off putting  
No body tugs their forelock at titles anymore do they ? Our commodore is always called the commode  LOL Might be I little difficult next year as it’s my wife  LOL.

To sum up , I think we all understand your point of view and do understand different perspectives, it’s just some people will always disagree with it and for other people, like me, it just doesnt  represent what we see day to day at our clubs . It’s been a interesting discussion so far with lots of different views and no one has even got upset yet . Shows what this forum can be  Smile.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 22 at 8:31am
There is no doubt that we are fooling ourselves to think that dinghy racing clubs on the whole, are not for the privileged.  By and large most of the “younger” dinghy racers that I see are second or third generation dinghy sailors, and participation in the sport is how they have been brought up.  I am sure that the clubs (and classes) that I have been involved would welcome anyone but they are essentially WASP.  It’s not about the titles it’s not about our colonial past, it’s a technical sport practiced by people steered that way usually by parents, and it has high entry costs.  No amount of social engineering is going to change this in any significant way.

The appeal of windsurfing when it boomed was that it did away with all of this junk, however like many new sports it was relatively superficial and those who participated did not buy into a lifetime activity, but ticked a box off a list … then onto mountain biking … snowboarding … wild water swimming etc.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3419 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 22 at 8:44am
David yacht, Perhaps with the clubs that have closed membership, doesn't appear to be like that in my area, I have been to every single club in my immediate area, West Midlands conurbation.
Robert
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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 22 at 8:49am
Originally posted by davidyacht

There is no doubt that we are fooling ourselves to think that dinghy racing clubs on the whole, are not for the privileged.  By and large most of the “younger” dinghy racers that I see are second or third generation dinghy sailors, and participation in the sport is how they have been brought up.  I am sure that the clubs (and classes) that I have been involved would welcome anyone but they are essentially WASP.  It’s not about the titles it’s not about our colonial past, it’s a technical sport practiced by people steered that way usually by parents, and it has high entry costs.  No amount of social engineering is going to change this in any significant way.
The appeal of windsurfing when it boomed was that it did away with all of this junk, however like many new sports it was relatively superficial and those who participated did not buy into a lifetime activity, but ticked a box off a list … then onto mountain biking … snowboarding … wild water swimming etc.


+100

Its telling that success many equipment based minority sports appear to run in families. Talent may play a part but mostly its the other financial/practical/cultural advantages that count.

The indoctrination is important(!) as the reality is perhaps that sailing 'ain't really all that'. Every sport claims it is the absolute best est way to spend your time... Rather more likely that for a similar level of enjoyment to other sports sailing is a huge faff.

Suspect that people without a family history in the sport are rather more clear eyed about this, especially compared to a tiny niche of people who comment on a forum, about a subdiscipline of a minority sport... :)
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 22 at 9:41am
As I said earlier no one has to abandon their beliefs. All I'm asking you to do is use your imagination.
As far as I am aware there are no Black folk participating in this forum. I'm not Black so I cannot absolutely know why sailing has very little Black participation........I just don't know.

But I can use my imagination and make a fairly shrewd guess as to at least one reason.

So in order to make my point I'll be more specific.

How would a Black person who's ancestors were abused as slaves by White aristocracy feel when confronted with the current image of UK sailing. Bearing in mind sailings close association with British Royalty and SC's preservation of titles used by the tools of the slave trade.

Cast your personal affiliations aside for a moment and extend a bit of empathy.






Edited by Sussex Lad - 15 May 22 at 9:45am
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3419 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 22 at 9:50am
Do you think black people wander round constantly thinking about their ancestors? Speaking for myself I feel no obligation whatsoever for what my ancestors did or didn't do, it's history, no better or worse than all empires did, perhaps we should apply for reperations from Italy for what the Romans did or France for what the Norman's did.
Robert
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 22 at 10:15am
Dunno Robert. I'm not Black.

I'll tell you one thing though: I don't constantly think about brick walls but when I walk into one one I know it bloody hurts. Wink

Edit: You do have an obligation regarding what you do now.

Edited by Sussex Lad - 15 May 22 at 10:17am
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 22 at 10:55am
Originally posted by 423zero

David yacht, Perhaps with the clubs that have closed membership, doesn't appear to be like that in my area, I have been to every single club in my immediate area, West Midlands conurbation.

Well that is great, and highlights my other thought about this thread … that no two sailing clubs are the same, and there is no “one size fits all” solution.  

If a club is a CASC or followed the CASC model it would have had to have put in place an “open door” policy.

The problem is probably how far you follow a positive discrimination model to encourage people to do something that they really don’t end up wanting to do.


Edited by davidyacht - 15 May 22 at 10:56am
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3419 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 22 at 11:11am
Even with a open door policy you can't get people to join.
Robert
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