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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: 50S
    Posted: 21 Mar 22 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

I shattered my prism of delusion a while ago... fun, fast enough, geared for predominantly light winds, easy to handle, not too technical....


all answered in the Devoti Zero, but there's a clog in the system still

All I can say is the D-zero exceeded my expectations in every way  Smile


Edited by MerlinMags - 24 Mar 22 at 5:50pm
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 22 at 3:46pm
I shattered my prism of delusion a while ago... fun, fast enough, geared for predominantly light winds, easy to handle, not too technical....


all answered in the Devoti Zero, but there's a clog in the system still


Edited by MerlinMags - 24 Mar 22 at 5:50pm
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Posts: 353 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 22 at 12:16pm
Fab 100 wrote:
"and a boat that weighs very little
but doesn't fall over when left in the water unattended
and doesn't have control lines he doesn't understand
and has a user-friendly assymetric not a 'proper' spinnaker
and can be sailed competitively, single handed, by someone under-height and under-weight
and has been invented in the last 3 years
and has a bandit handicap
and is a monohull dinghy

Great brief, humour gives special insights.
Someone want to give it a go?
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 22 at 2:38pm
I've never thought of this time of year as 'prime time' for selling second hand, to my mind it's usually 2 or even 3 months from now, early Summer, when people look to change, the good weather is really in (ha ha I know where we all live!!) and dreams of summer sailing bring out the wallets and fill up the classifieds
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Posts: 457 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 22 at 2:27pm
That is clearly a real selling point of the 505 and has underpinned the class strength for years.   

Your second point regarding decent used boats is very pertinent to other classes as well.  There seems to be either no newish and decent used boats for sale, so, ordering new is the only option.  Or  settling for some pretty aged boats that are not going to be competitive.  I've been looking at the Hadron H2, the K1 keelboat and OKs and maybe a Phantom.   Perhaps its like the used car market where even ropey stuff is now fetching big bucks?
Steve
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Posts: 237 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 22 at 3:39pm
Lets not give Graeme any more air-time on his ever-boring PYAG Conspiracy Theory. 

Anyhow, back on topic ..

Originally posted by Paul Smalley

There's an article on another sailing website front page essentially making the argument that the 505 has been overdeveloped and is as a result too expensive. (Probably no change out of 30k)...
Everyone wants to sail a 505... why wouldn't you, they're beautiful things....

The argument being made is that if the class allowed a 50S and could somehow shave 10k off the price it'd be a popular move. The 50S would have for example a limited number of fittings, the old spinnaker and maybe one design foils.... These boats could race at 505 events for different prizes. After all it wouldn't be significantly slower than a fully fettled 505.

1. Would this actually shave 10k off the price?
2. Is it a good idea?
3. in the process of simplifying the boat would you ruin all that's good about it?

I doubt that a 505SE would shave £10k off the pice. and even if it did, thats still a whopping £20k to lay down. So you are still in the comfortably-off-persons toy price band, and no real marketing machine behind it to make it the latest must-have - so essentially a very niche market anyway. And you would always be wanting the real machine when at a full-monty 505 event. So you would spend £20k on a used full-fat 505 wouldnt you?

(I had 2 x 505's in my much younger fitter days and had the bestest time ever sailing them, even though they were 2nd hand)


Edited by Chris_H - 16 Mar 22 at 3:44pm
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Posts: 1312 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 22 at 3:23pm
I do understand the reason for the monster kite and trick foils, so I can see why a 505SE for new money wouldn't appeal to a really (but not quite top 1% no judgement intended) competitive racer and not many others would stump up new money for simply fun. But setting the 505 circuit aside I've crewed one pre-monster kite and they are a lovely boat in that form and bonus, modest sized people can crew them and even reach with the kite. In the 90s I knew of two husband and wife teams who regularly sailed on the N. Sea off East Anglia both in club handicap and class meetings.    There could be some mileage in unofficial old rules classic FiveOh sub group. I guess they are old enough for CVRDA meets.   

edit add. I'm thinking  "waste not, want not" I know some of the ones with wood foredecks might be beyond hope but in the main they were built strong as.
 


Edited by Do Different - 16 Mar 22 at 3:34pm
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 22 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

problem is Graeme wants it all... decent competition, loads of participation and a handicap system he thinks is right.  It's a prism of delusion... 

and a boat that weighs very little
but doesn't fall over when left in the water unattended
and doesn't have control lines he doesn't understand
and has a user-friendly assymetric not a 'proper' spinnaker
and can be sailed competitively, single handed, by someone under-height and under-weight
and has been invented in the last 3 years
and has a bandit handicap
and is a monohull dinghy

But you cannae change the laws of physics

I'd like a rich, tall, fit supercrew (who understands gybing centreboards) to buy and fund my 505 helming for them. I'd not want a 505SE (in iPhone-speak). But weirdly I'm not the deluded one.

"Prism of delusion" is going straight into my favourite phrases list, Jimbo
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 22 at 1:08pm
Not a member of the class so not really for me to say what 505 Assoc should do. However from what I have been told by fellow happy triers who do own a 505 the class is absolutely brilliant at advising and helping anyone keen enough to rock up with the best can afford. It is not always about having the shiniest boat in the fleet, the most respect is gained by getting out of bed and having a go.
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 22 at 12:22pm
problem is Graeme wants it all... decent competition, loads of participation and a handicap system he thinks is right.  It's a prism of delusion... PY works as well as any other handicap system, but it is what it is.


Once you accept disparate craft 'racing' each other on essentially corrected time trial, is either just good fun with a competitive aspect, or not for you, then you can accept class racing for what it is too.


And if  class racing is your real bag, and you have the time, money and other person to partner with, please, I dare you all, give me one valid reason why the 505 wouldn't feature in your armada?


It's aspirational sailing - and still, imho, the king of amateur dinghy racing. I can't see a role for a lesser version - even at club level.  I'd honestly rather have a Fireball if symmetric was the route I was going down.


Edited by turnturtle - 16 Mar 22 at 12:23pm
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