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eric_c View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Paul Smalley

I think the point is that the front of the fleet these days is spending a lot of money on upgrades even if, in rare cases, their hulls are older. An Alto just isn't a 505 whatever it was marketed as. But a 505, without some of the more expensive upgrades racing against other 505's similarly hobbled isn't a bad idea.

I suspect most people don't campaign boats, they just turn up at a few events when personal circumstances allow and like to think that if they sailed better and practiced more and had more talent then they had a fair chance of winning.

Lots of exotic development classes could benefit from restricted development prizes, allowing people with older boats to maybe simplify them slightly and then race against others without canting foils or one string raking rigs. Just a thought. Might be more popular than just racing in a 'classic' fleet at the same event.


Successful clubs and classes who are getting on with life quite happily will never be short of advice from outsiders who can't organise their own club or class.
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skslr View Drop Down
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Posts: 139 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 3:15pm
I guess the 505 could be regarded as one of the more successfull classes as it is today. Maybe for those who can afford to spend 20 k for something "useless" like a racing dinghy, the extra 10 k do not matter as much as an extra 10 k for someone who can just afford an old dinghy for 2 k?
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Paul Smalley View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 3:51pm
Have tried very hard not to do advice, shame if it came across like that. The question was who thought the original article discussed made a valid point? I'm not buying a 505 and have barely sailed them, just always looked up to them as the pinnacle of the traditional classes. You could ask the same question of several classes that are doing well and presently have classic fleets. Merlins, Canoes...
-Paul
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 6:05pm
Classic fleets are a different ball game.
You can buy a 'classic' Merlin for maybe £5k and learn a lot racing against the whole fleet.
Various fleets make an effort to encourage the older boats or low budget teams at club and champiohship level. It seems to me that in a fleet like the Merlins, you can have an identical boat to someone in the top few, and unless  you're fairly talented and committed, you're not coming in the top ten. But people still enjoy it and get a lot out of it at their own level. Just like most other sports, most people who run in marathons know damn well they're not going to win.

Spending £20k for a second-class boat, just because you want 'brand new' would say an awful lot about what's wrong with younger sailors today.

The irony is, it's the hull development that's gone into 505's which sets them apart from the likes of 470s, which have a competitive life measured in hours and end up only campaigned by national teams with big budgets.

Great as the 50 is, hull design has moved on in the last 50 years, if you want a new class, there is no good reason to start with the 505. If you want to attract 'club level' sailors, I suspect something more optimised for your avarage Husband/Wife team would give you a better market.
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by eric_c



The irony is, it's the hull development that's gone into 505's which sets them apart from the likes of 470s, which have a competitive life measured in hours and end up only campaigned by national teams with big budgets.


And the official reason given for restricting 470 building to polyester resin only is to keep costs down. You couldn't make it up
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 7:47pm
Yes the 470 construction is a mess. Back in 1979 Parker’s made a trial 470 in foam sandwich-and the class association decided not to take it any further-big mistake. If they had done that and upgraded the resin-the boat would be a completely different beast. You could then do 2 or 3 campaigns in one.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by eric_c


Spending £20k for a second-class boat, just because you want 'brand new' would say an awful lot about what's wrong with younger sailors today.

OK boomer  LOL

FYI Paul is too modest to mention that he is a multi-class national champ so I’m sure he is not advocating a second-class boat.  Saving £10k and only going 1% slower seems good value to me, but I suspect there is always space for the “ultimate” class for the wealthy to play in.
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by A2Z

... Saving £10k and only going 1% slower seems good value to me, but I suspect there is always space for the “ultimate” class for the wealthy to play in.

Being 1% slower in a competitive OD fleet is 'welcome to the Bronze Fleet'.
Spending £20k on a boat to do that is not clever.
1%  is a lot of boatlengths at the first mark and 'bye then'.
You could have 3 brand new Lasers ILCAs for that and no excuses.

Many years ago, I used to know a 505 sailor, not wildly wealthy, but traded up to a new boat every 4 years or so. Back then he said a five-oh had been 'roughly the price of a new Mini' for a decade or 3. Not so different now.
Some people might need to look around and see that a Mini as 'optional spending' is not exactly the extreme of excesses of the uber-rich degenerates.

There are plenty of classes with fixed gear, 49er, 800 spring to mind.
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Posts: 38 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 9:04pm
Why is it so hard for people to accept that it is what it is, and trying to reduce the cost will likely change the class to a point that it will not be what is loved about the 5o's. If a Ferrari cost the same as a ford it would likely not be the Ferrari that most had desired.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 22 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by eric_c

Originally posted by A2Z

... Saving £10k and only going 1% slower seems good value to me, but I suspect there is always space for the “ultimate” class for the wealthy to play in.

Being 1% slower in a competitive OD fleet is 'welcome to the Bronze Fleet'.
Spending £20k on a boat to do that is not clever.
1%  is a lot of boatlengths at the first mark and 'bye then'.
You could have 3 brand new Lasers ILCAs for that and no excuses.

Many years ago, I used to know a 505 sailor, not wildly wealthy, but traded up to a new boat every 4 years or so. Back then he said a five-oh had been 'roughly the price of a new Mini' for a decade or 3. Not so different now.
Some people might need to look around and see that a Mini as 'optional spending' is not exactly the extreme of excesses of the uber-rich degenerates.

There are plenty of classes with fixed gear, 49er, 800 spring to mind.
Now I think you are being deliberately obtuse.
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