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eric_c View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Feb 22 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by A2Z

Originally posted by Old bloke

No suitable for everyone, but a normal domestic sized photovoltaic system will supply most of the power that most people would need to run their car

That’s not true. I have a roof full of south facing panels and this last week they have generated about 0.4kW of power. Need at least 1.6kW to charge an EV and that would be a very slow charge. Not to mention the solar panels only work during the day, when the car is normally in use and not around to be plugged in!

There should be ways around this, to make the best of whatever solar is giving you. In the same way perhaps that people run 3kW immersion heaters intermittently on a few hundred watts of spare solar and the metering smooths it out? For many people, a BEV or PHEV and solar panels would be more than the sum  of the parts. Instead of exporting a kWh at 5p, you might be driving as far as you can go on 50p worth of diesel.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NicolaJayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 22 at 12:39am
Originally posted by iGRF

Long ago I tried to push the idea of universal sized batterys that you just switched at a gas station where they were stored in racks trickle charged by solar/wind, the fuel companies get to stay in the loop, battery production gets to be developed by rival companies all claiming better mileage etc, but all cars get built with a universal 'slot' to slide the battery in and out of, and charged for each use. Government would even benefit by vat on charging whatever. But just like dinghyworld, nobody with any vision or thought of standardisation in charge. So here we are with dozens of different cables, attachment points, charge units not working, no chance of dealing effectively with terrace street parking, everyone shy of all electric vehicles due to range fear. Typical mess brought about by capitalist competition driven dogma.


andof course there was the EE powerbank debacle in 2015  

https://www.computerweekly.com/news/4500251300/EE-recalls-exploding-power-banks
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 22 at 6:58am
Originally posted by Old bloke

If every week everywhere was a rainy week in February, we wouldn't need any electricity as we would have all topped ourselves.
Fortunately most weeks in most places have more sunshine than that

but it is a rare week indeed that I can produce 1.6kW - and never the 7kW needed to charge an EV in 10-12hrs.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 22 at 7:33am
I agree-that’s why I haven’t bothered getting a7KW charger for the EV. I just use the 2.2 mains plug one then there’s a chance that I am using my own solar rather than grid electric (I never need to do a big charge at home luckily)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 22 at 7:55am
it can be done in small bikes, but obviously needs scaling up for cars.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/electric-motorbike-swappable-batteries/

The current method of charging cars is not going to work, it takes far too long to charge a car. It may take about 15 mins to charge a Tesla for a 200 mile boost, but if everyone has one its going to do 4 cars per hour. A petrol refill takes 3 minutes maybe, so 20 cars per minute. It is going to cause one hell of a tailback at the charging points. Thats out and about. What about at home? Of course if you have space to charge overnight, fine, I don't I have to park on the far side of the road from my house so cannot trail a lead across the road. What about all of those victorian terraced streets where you have no idea where you are going to park each night? Nope that won't work either. So either all roads are dug up to put in nationally owned charging or something else needs to be done. 

So then you are back to quick swappable batteries that only take a couple of mins to do. However there is a limit to how many of those will be available at each site even if all manufacturers agreed a common standard.

We need a new fuel, or we are going back to the cart & horse. I fear the days of the open meeting circuit are coming to an end.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 22 at 8:13am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

even if all manufacturers agreed a common standard.

Never gonna happen. For example, big cars have different requirements to small cars and therefore different battery types. The design of the car influences where they can put batteries. Every model of car is different. You would effectively need so many different types and sizes of battery that it would be impossible to maintain and stock in any "service" area. Every car manufacturer would have to agree a base standard chassis and design - pretty much clones. For me - swoppable batteries is simply not do-able, however sound it may seem at a high level. 

The problem of re-charging in an area without close charging infrastructure though is a real one - flats, terraces etc and that for me is where the uptake of EV's is a major challenge for the industry and governments. Having a local mult-storey charging car park where you dump your car overnight is one suggestion but I dont think that is a flyer in reality.

For me, ICE cars are now an unacceptable future in any case. EV's are one way forward for some sections of society, but not all. The real answer probably lies in using a car in the same way you call up Uber, and stop car ownership all together - but that in itself has implications

I also think that 2030 is a target date that will get kicked down the road for all of the above reasons


Edited by Chris_H - 18 Feb 22 at 8:16am
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 22 at 8:34am
hence why I said "even if.." - it would take direction from government to force it, but that would only come from something like the EU and would take years to agree. We of course would choose something different as we couldn't possible endorse something the Europeans insist on.

2030 isn't viable, its just a soundbite but of course it will help to focus minds a little which is necessary, without it nothing would happen. 

Hydrogen is a possibility but only if it is created as clean as possible. Its the nearest there is to what we already use but it appears the government is only looking at it for HGVs etc at the moment, however it may be that it becomes the norm. Certainly seems more viable than the electric option, both from the refueling issues and the horrendous damage to the planet the creation of batteries does. 
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 22 at 8:34am
I don't disagree with last post.
However.
A bit like the govt going full on about air source heat pumps and banning new gas. This blind push for all EV and banning ICE ignores real world living which requires a multi pronged approach not narrow dogma.
Yes the current infrastructure will need a massive upgrade to support universal EV. Why ignore the fact that we already have a functioning E transport system in railways, pile a bit more money into alternatives to spread the load. 
I don't know if it due to the need for simplistic headlines or policy makers living in some sort of  bubble but one size will not fit all.




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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 22 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Do Different

... Why ignore the fact that we already have a functioning E transport system in railways, pile a bit more money into alternatives to spread the load.

This ^^^

But, public transport needs to be vastly improved (it can be done, on my rare treks abroad I've seen it), it needs to be cheap (or better still free for local journeys) clean and frequent. Rail is the most energy efficient form of transport but there is little incentive to use a train to get from, say, Manchester to London, rather than driving, it costs more, takes longer and while some trains are clean and modern many are old, scruffy and dirty.


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 18 Feb 22 at 9:50am
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 22 at 9:54am
but unless the way the country is governed this will not happen. The current way is to allow the free market to determine everything, and if there's no profit it will not happen. To do this you will need to go down the nationalised route surely?

Also this will only benefit the major routes, it won't get me from the village I live in to my workplace 17 miles away. And I won't be the only one, but it should take the strain off the motorways.
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