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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tow Cars
    Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 11:49am
Originally posted by PeterG

No surprise surely, that carrying cycles and towing increases energy use. So more fuel (and emissions!) in an ICE, less range in an EV. But clearly it's something many might overlook.

I can tell with my diesel car, that towing a dinghy impacts MPG, if I ever get to tow at a steady speed. Also the drag of a canoe on the roof makes a noticeable difference. The flip side is that EVs can be very economical when traffic is slower. As a two car household, one EV would work for us, but they need to get cheaper. The number of people I know getting electric cars seems to be roughly equla to the number buying gas guzzling camper vans...
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 12:05pm
Leisure oriented car use will change when the ICE ban comes in, people who can afford it will have a electric car for general use and a ICE for distance and grunt work, will spend most of its time on the drive.
Robert
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Leisure oriented car use will change when the ICE ban comes in, people who can afford it will have a electric car for general use and a ICE for distance and grunt work, will spend most of its time on the drive.

When people are forced to adopt EVs for their only car, then there will be a need for more charging stations. At the moment, none of the people I know with BEVs ever use a charging station, they just charge at home. Except my neighbour who's done trips to 'The North' about every 6 months. Two planned snack and charge stops each way. Probably wasted an hour of his time, whereas I waste 10 minutes buying fuel most weeks.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 12:56pm
The thing is that the ban won't be on owning or running ICE cars but on selling new ones, and that won't be until 2030 at the earliest so diesel and petrol cars will still be available and relatively commonplace for at least 10-20 years after that, i.e. 2050 or later (by which time, if I'm still around, I'll be 97). What will have a bigger impact on ICE vehicle use will be the availability and cost of petrol and diesel fuel.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 12 Feb 22 at 12:58pm
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by eric_c

Originally posted by PeterG

No surprise surely, that carrying cycles and towing increases energy use. So more fuel (and emissions!) in an ICE, less range in an EV. But clearly it's something many might overlook.

I can tell with my diesel car, that towing a dinghy impacts MPG, if I ever get to tow at a steady speed. Also the drag of a canoe on the roof makes a noticeable difference. The flip side is that EVs can be very economical when traffic is slower. As a two car household, one EV would work for us, but they need to get cheaper. The number of people I know getting electric cars seems to be roughly equla to the number buying gas guzzling camper vans...

My new camper has significantly better economy than my previous tow car, and about the same as my current BMW520d
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 1:22pm
Touring caravan industry worth 9.3 billion pounds in 2020 and directly employs over 130,000 people, this figure doesn't take into account employees in supply and transport of goods to caravan manufacturers etc, going to be a major blow if it all grinds to a halt.
Robert
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 2:00pm
Touring caravans with built in traction motors and batteries already exist and can restore some or all of that lost range. I don't see that happening with boat trailers anytime soon though (and if it does I suspect the trailer will cost more than the boat  Unhappy)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

The thing is that the ban won't be on owning or running ICE cars but on selling new ones, and that won't be until 2030 at the earliest so diesel and petrol cars will still be available and relatively commonplace for at least 10-20 years after that, i.e. 2050 or later (by which time, if I'm still around, I'll be 97). What will have a bigger impact on ICE vehicle use will be the availability and cost of petrol and diesel fuel.
That is partly true, but…
An increasing number of urban areas are already or will ban or punitively charge ICE vehicles via Clean Air Zones.  Bristol, for example, had proposed a £100 fee to enter in a Euro5 diesel.  The charge has now been lowered somewhat, but it applies 24/7.  How long before they extend that to Euro6 vehicles, then 1st generation EV’s?  So who dares buy a new ICE vehicle in Bristol?  Not me!
This will feed into a culture where driving ICE is seen as being socially unacceptable, the market will decline, fuel forecourts will close, petrol prices will rise, fewer mechanics will be around to service them and almost certainly there will be further tax disadvantages to running ICE. By 2030, running an ICE vehicle will be viewed like smoking or not recycling is now.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 3:10pm
I'm not overly pessimistic, by 2030 used EVs may have become sufficiently affordable for 'ordinary people' to buy them but those older EV's still won't have the range to cope with towing so ICE cars will still be around. Unless public transport becomes much more user friendly people will still need cars and many will have at least two in the family, if one is a small EV, then  CAZ charges are not a problem for local journeys and CAZ charges look likely to be affordable where a petrol or diesel car or camper is the only option for a longer journey. 
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 3:14pm
It would reasonable expect a drift of use and as said closure of fossil fuel outlets.

I do also foresee (or should I say cannot see how not) an end to in my mind at least the "fools paradise" of cheap EV running costs. That lost revenue from fuel will soon have to be replaced from somewhere.   
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