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Solution, trouble at mill?

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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Solution, trouble at mill?
    Posted: 11 Nov 21 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Cirrus

Any other class in need of eradication?
I suspect a few more yet would benefit from your very own special  'midas touch'.  Thank goodness you did not succeed with the Blaze ... and after two attempts to my knowledge at least !!  In fact since you left us a year ago we have held our largest Nationals ever - with 73 entering at Paignton '21 back in June.....  Many a phrase said in jest etc ..... LOL


Well there has been another very recent, serious attempt at self destruction, featuring a very nice boat from Whistable owned by a Dutch guy, lucky for you, another ex windsurfer stepped in, but you're not out of danger yet there's a guy at our club hell bent on getting me back into one so he's got someone to race against. But suddenly I feel strangely drawn to the OK, stuff keeps popping up on my fb page, it's very quirky and you now how I'm drawn to quirky.

when you see the big old centerboard, it will be feeling queasy not quirky ....
Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 21 at 7:37pm
So what is the problem you experienced with Blaze centreboards GRF ? ...   Not heard this one anywhere else in the past except from you.  They are fairly moderate for the boat in fact .. even at your weight surely ?    There are quite a few lighter than you and under a full F4 the lightweights do pretty well .. more than that and yes .. you may well struggle but that is exactly what the smaller 'Fire' sail was developed for..  I suspect trying to 'bully' too much sail area for the conditons  is the real issue here !.  You as an individual will be as fast or faster than trying to persist with the standard sail in those conditions. ... and just to be clear as we all 'get on' a bit the smaller/flatter 'Fire' (even those of us at 'normal' weight Wink)  becomes that more attractive anyway.  Next time, if you must inflict yourself on the class yet again, do try a Fire sail.  Many clubs use a PN of 1065 for the 'Fire' version which means we race with the Aero 7's 'boat for boat' - what is not to enjoy !    You are always welcome back (with the usual reservations of course etc) especially if you join in at the Nationals etc .. LOL


Edited by Cirrus - 11 Nov 21 at 7:39pm
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 21 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Cirrus


So what is the problem you experienced with Blaze centreboards GRF ? ...   Not heard this one anywhere else in the past except from you.  They are fairly moderate for the boat in fact .. even at your weight surely ?    There are quite a few lighter than you and under a full F4 the lightweights do pretty well .. more than that and yes .. you may well struggle but that is exactly what the smaller 'Fire' sail was developed for..  I suspect trying to 'bully' too much sail area for the conditons  is the real issue here !.  You as an individual will be as fast or faster than trying to persist with the standard sail in those conditions. ... and just to be clear as we all 'get on' a bit the smaller/flatter 'Fire' (even those of us at 'normal' weight Wink)  becomes that more attractive anyway.  Next time, if you must inflict yourself on the class yet again, do try a Fire sail.  Many clubs use a PN of 1065 for the 'Fire' version which means we race with the Aero 7's 'boat for boat' - what is not to enjoy !    You are always welcome back (with the usual reservations of course etc) especially if you join in at the Nationals etc .. LOL

The problem you don't take into account, because you just class race against exactly the same boat, whereas I tend to use whatever I sail, against a mixture of lots of other boats. If I could be asked, I'd search way back to when I first pointed out the failings of the Blaze CB in that it's too small in area for the waterline length and power of a 10+ metre sail, if I were to exmine it further and look at the NACA section which probably is set to a much faster planing hull than the craft actually delivers, I bet I could probably crucify it even further, but hey who cares, it's a One design and you're all happy to sail the same crap.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 21 at 10:26pm
.... and there I was thinking you were struggling with the size ..and assumed you were hankering after a smaller foil !!  Even some of the regular heavies would prefer a slightly smaller one when it blows in actual fact. However any foil has to work across the wind range and in a blow the Blaze is quite quick.  A 'compromise' is what most boats foils really are .. and have to be.  The foil section used is as I'm sure you know relatively 'easy' to engage across with the wind range.  I'd go for a more laminer flow type myself if starting from scratch but that might be a bit tricky in the ligher stuff .. for some tastes .... but I'd not bothered as much then myself.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 7:24am
So can you get laminar flow on a dinghy centreboard? I thought that was a bit of an urban myth-a bit like lee-bowing the tide,and boats floating higher if they were made from foam sandwich. I once worked on a “laminar flow “ keel for a race boat that was a disaster-obviously was never laminar and really slow-maybe things have moved on from 1990.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 7:42am
Problem with laminar flow foils is that they operate very efficiently in a very narrow bucket of angles or attack, whereas a 4 digit NACA section is more over a wider range.  That is forgetting that actually making a laminar 63 or 64 section accurately is not likely.  

In the meantime there are literally 100s of thousands of dinghies providing plenty of enjoyment with foils that are no more than a sheet of ply which the edges chamfered off.

On the scale of things the choice of foil section is high on the list of diminishing returns 
Happily living in the past
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 11:14am
The one that we were working on was for an IACC yacht. The CFD guy said that the dimensions were critical so all the tools were graphite as it has such a low CTE . So everyone ended up covered in black at the end of the day. As as I said it was dog slow-from then on the CFD department was renamed the Complete F*****ing Disaster!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Problem with laminar flow foils is that they operate very efficiently in a very narrow bucket of angles or attack, whereas a 4 digit NACA section is more over a wider range.  That is forgetting that actually making a laminar 63 or 64 section accurately is not likely.  
In the meantime there are literally 100s of thousands of dinghies providing plenty of enjoyment with foils that are no more than a sheet of ply which the edges chamfered off.
On the scale of things the choice of foil section is high on the list of diminishing returns 


Don't talk to me about foils, I'm in a world of over stock hurt here, as the kite/wing/windsurf world delves into foiling, race foils, surf foils, freestyle foils, even dock start foils, every few weeks a new release making the last release old news and redundant stock.

As for dinghys I'm not sure which is the worse I've seen, the tiller on a streaker, or that slab of metal under a Finn, but the Blaze comes into particular grief from me because it's hopeless at my forte, stuffing it in lightwind, and he's carried that into that prototype Hybrid/fireblade I've been messing with which is the complete opposite, works great in light, hopeless trying to kick it off in wind on the wire, one day I'll find something that works well enough across the board.
Well actually and back on Topic, the plate that comes with the Solution isn't bad, that can be stuffed yet also works sailed by somebody with enough weight to kick it off a bit in a breeze, so they are out there.
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Cirrus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 6:08pm
I think the problem GRF is outlining is the way/style he sails a dinghy.  The Blaze is in fact very easy to get going in the lighter stuff  BUT sheeting it correctly is critical.  Any hint of over-sheeting by the helm and they surely will struggle - the answer is simply in the sheeting angle that is largely set by the strop across the back of the boat.  Get that wrong, and while you can blame the foils or not if you like, you will be missing the point.   If you never race with other Blazes, (hopefully good ones !) you will never learn what really works and what does not.  If you can sort that in decent class racing you will also find handicap racing so much more satisfying.  There are critical things to learn in any class to get the best out of them  - not just the Blaze.  How many class opens have you or did you ever enter ? ...  I think there is an rather large elephant in this particular room.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 21 at 7:03pm
Err it’s less large elephant and more overinflated small troll  LOL
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