Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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getafix ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Mar 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2143 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 11 Nov 21 at 5:13pm |
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when you see the big old centerboard, it will be feeling queasy not quirky ....
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Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one
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Cirrus ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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So what is the problem you experienced with Blaze centreboards GRF ? ... Not heard this one anywhere else in the past except from you. They are fairly moderate for the boat in fact .. even at your weight surely ? There are quite a few lighter than you and under a full F4 the lightweights do pretty well .. more than that and yes .. you may well struggle but that is exactly what the smaller 'Fire' sail was developed for.. I suspect trying to 'bully' too much sail area for the conditons is the real issue here !. You as an individual will be as fast or faster than trying to persist with the standard sail in those conditions. ... and just to be clear as we all 'get on' a bit the smaller/flatter 'Fire' (even those of us at 'normal' weight
![]() ![]() Edited by Cirrus - 11 Nov 21 at 7:39pm |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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The problem you don't take into account, because you just class race against exactly the same boat, whereas I tend to use whatever I sail, against a mixture of lots of other boats. If I could be asked, I'd search way back to when I first pointed out the failings of the Blaze CB in that it's too small in area for the waterline length and power of a 10+ metre sail, if I were to exmine it further and look at the NACA section which probably is set to a much faster planing hull than the craft actually delivers, I bet I could probably crucify it even further, but hey who cares, it's a One design and you're all happy to sail the same crap. |
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Cirrus ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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.... and there I was thinking you were struggling with the size ..and assumed you were hankering after a smaller foil !! Even some of the regular heavies would prefer a slightly smaller one when it blows in actual fact. However any foil has to work across the wind range and in a blow the Blaze is quite quick. A 'compromise' is what most boats foils really are .. and have to be. The foil section used is as I'm sure you know relatively 'easy' to engage across with the wind range. I'd go for a more laminer flow type myself if starting from scratch but that might be a bit tricky in the ligher stuff .. for some tastes .... but I'd not bothered as much then myself.
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Oatsandbeans ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 19 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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So can you get laminar flow on a dinghy centreboard? I thought that was a bit of an urban myth-a bit like lee-bowing the tide,and boats floating higher if they were made from foam sandwich. I once worked on a “laminar flow “ keel for a race boat that was a disaster-obviously was never laminar and really slow-maybe things have moved on from 1990.
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davidyacht ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Problem with laminar flow foils is that they operate very efficiently in a very narrow bucket of angles or attack, whereas a 4 digit NACA section is more over a wider range. That is forgetting that actually making a laminar 63 or 64 section accurately is not likely.
In the meantime there are literally 100s of thousands of dinghies providing plenty of enjoyment with foils that are no more than a sheet of ply which the edges chamfered off. On the scale of things the choice of foil section is high on the list of diminishing returns
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Happily living in the past
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Oatsandbeans ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 19 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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The one that we were working on was for an IACC yacht. The CFD guy said that the dimensions were critical so all the tools were graphite as it has such a low CTE . So everyone ended up covered in black at the end of the day. As as I said it was dog slow-from then on the CFD department was renamed the Complete F*****ing Disaster!
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Don't talk to me about foils, I'm in a world of over stock hurt here, as the kite/wing/windsurf world delves into foiling, race foils, surf foils, freestyle foils, even dock start foils, every few weeks a new release making the last release old news and redundant stock. As for dinghys I'm not sure which is the worse I've seen, the tiller on a streaker, or that slab of metal under a Finn, but the Blaze comes into particular grief from me because it's hopeless at my forte, stuffing it in lightwind, and he's carried that into that prototype Hybrid/fireblade I've been messing with which is the complete opposite, works great in light, hopeless trying to kick it off in wind on the wire, one day I'll find something that works well enough across the board. Well actually and back on Topic, the plate that comes with the Solution isn't bad, that can be stuffed yet also works sailed by somebody with enough weight to kick it off a bit in a breeze, so they are out there. |
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Cirrus ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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I think the problem GRF is outlining is the way/style he sails a dinghy. The Blaze is in fact very easy to get going in the lighter stuff BUT sheeting it correctly is critical. Any hint of over-sheeting by the helm and they surely will struggle - the answer is simply in the sheeting angle that is largely set by the strop across the back of the boat. Get that wrong, and while you can blame the foils or not if you like, you will be missing the point. If you never race with other Blazes, (hopefully good ones !) you will never learn what really works and what does not. If you can sort that in decent class racing you will also find handicap racing so much more satisfying. There are critical things to learn in any class to get the best out of them - not just the Blaze. How many class opens have you or did you ever enter ? ... I think there is an rather large elephant in this particular room.
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Grumpycat ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 29 Sep 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 497 |
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Err it’s less large elephant and more overinflated small troll
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