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Misconduct/RRS 69 Guidance
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Misconduct/RRS 69 Guidance
    Posted: 11 Nov 21 at 9:21am
OK, so the guidance doesn't create on offence based on the subjective feelings of a race official. The tests remain objective.

I was brought up that the only things I, as a competitor said to a race officer were "Good Morning", "Thank for a nice day on the water", and "Can I buy you a drink?", to which he was duty bound to reply, "No thank, I've got one coming."

As a sensitive new age race officer, I now seek and welcome feedback from competitors.

What i don't welcome is an earful of abuse.   I think "ridiculous" is just over the line. Whether it would bother me would depend on what else was said.

Generally, if anyone has a "complaint" about race management they should either request redress or write a letter to the sailing committee.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 21 at 8:19am
Originally posted by ClubRacer

Originally posted by 423zero

I like the 'Language that would make an official FEEL they were incompetent or make others think the official was incompetent'.

That's a really tough one as at nearly every event this year I've attended someone has made a complaint about a race management issue. Where does the line get drawn? 

I used the words Ridiculous to an RO this year in regards to starting a race with half the fleet not even at the course yet because launching facilities were to slow to get everyone off the shore in time. Do we just put up with that kind of nonsense because we can't be vocal about it or risk face getting protested under R69?


As paying "customers" are we not allowed to hold them to a decent standard?

I’ll bite on this.  IMHO if you said the RO’s actions were ridiculous (definition: worthy of contempt or derision) rather than the situation (e.g. “your decision to start that race was ridiculous” vs “that race was ridiculous because the wind was unbelievably shifty”) you have breached 57.1.1[language that might convey incompetence of race official].

Also see section 9, the bar is not gross misconduct, and calling an RO’s actions or decisions is a breach of good manners.

What is Misconduct?
9.1 Misconduct is defined by rule 69.1(a) as being conduct which:
9.1.1 is a breach of good manners, sportsmanship or unethical behaviour; or
9.1.2 conduct that may bring, or has brought, the sport into disrepute.
9.2 There is no requirement for misconduct to be ‘gross misconduct’. This means the level at which conduct becomes misconduct is lower than it was under the rules until 2017,
9.3 This was a deliberate policy decision of World Sailing and intended to ensure a greater range of bad behaviour is addressed by protest committees. In order to ensure that competitors are still treated appropriately and proportionately, greater flexibility has been given to protest committees and other disciplinary bodies.

I have known club members quit the club (and the sport) on the back of rude complaints about their RO efforts.  In a volunteer sport this is clearly absurd.  Even if paid, it is common courtesy to thank officials and provide feedback in a constructive, polite manner.
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 21 at 8:08am
It’s not my interpretation of appendix E and F  Disapprove
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 21 at 7:21am
My interpretation of appendix E and F.
Robert
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 21 at 11:34pm
I cannot find it either . I do hope 423zero can point it out . 
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 21 at 11:34pm
Sorry Brass, not a direct quote, my interpretation, will find original tomorrow and you can Interpret it, see if you agree.
Robert
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 21 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I like the 'Language that would make an official FEEL they were incompetent or make others think the official was incompetent'.


I can't find that in the document.

What paragraph please?
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ClubRacer View Drop Down
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Posts: 210 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 21 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I like the 'Language that would make an official FEEL they were incompetent or make others think the official was incompetent'.

That's a really tough one as at nearly every event this year I've attended someone has made a complaint about a race management issue. Where does the line get drawn? 

I used the words Ridiculous to an RO this year in regards to starting a race with half the fleet not even at the course yet because launching facilities were to slow to get everyone off the shore in time. Do we just put up with that kind of nonsense because we can't be vocal about it or risk face getting protested under R69?


As paying "customers" are we not allowed to hold them to a decent standard?


Edited by ClubRacer - 10 Nov 21 at 10:20pm
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 21 at 6:51pm
I like the 'Language that would make an official FEEL they were incompetent or make others think the official was incompetent'.
Robert
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 21 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by iGRF

So does this mean no knighthood in future if you swear, jump out of your boat and start beating up photographers then?

£3m gets you a Lordship ...
Happily living in the past
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