New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Solo Nationals
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Solo Nationals

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910>
Author
eric_c View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 21 Jan 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 382
Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Solo Nationals
    Posted: 05 Sep 21 at 6:21am
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by eric_c

It's a lor easier to accept the shortvomings of amateur/volunteer RO's if you're being charged amateur entry fees.

How much do you think its costs to run a championships?

Any number you like, depending on how you choose to add it up.

You might include just the direct additional costs such as boat fuel and trophies.
At the other extreme, what the market will bear.
add in a bit of sponsorship and the entry fees are sure to go up!
Seriously, it's very variable, and it's not always clear where the money's going, between the host club, class association and any other parties such as the town council who may be charging for the sea front or whatever.
I've had some slight involvement with totally commercially run events. £500 a day for a staffed committee boat, couple of hundred for a mark-laying RIB.Our club boys get some free beer and food. They wouldn't be taking time off work to do it if the club wasn't doing well out of it.
Don't forget that there are more man hours of admin than racing, meetings between club and CA, entries to deal with, all sorts of preparation. Some stuff in both Club and CA is probably never really split between the champs and the rest of the year, much of it is never accounted for at all. Superficially, a champs is extremely good for our bank balance, but we can only do that once a year as an exercise in monetising the club's assets, very much including the human assets!. Either running a champs is part and parcel of the make-up of the club or it isn't and you can't create that from nowhere...


But none of that reduces the  need to give the paying punters good value. By the time the flags start breaking out, the costs are mostly fixed, the value is yet to be established.
Back to Top
Paramedic View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 929
Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 21 at 7:38am
I agree, I'm reasonably experienced in running champs albeit from the association side rather than the club side. What I would say is that the club has always - quite rightly - made by far and away the lions share from the event. The association looks to basically not make a loss.

What irks me is the perception that £250 entry fee is poor value, something usually put about by people who have more idea about whats under the surface of mars than they do about the amount of unpaid hours that get put in by volunteers. It doesn't excuse a poor reception from the club or poor race management (Though most potentially controversial decisions such as marginal days are shared with the association) but just think how much more it would cost if every volunteer charged minimum wage per hour - then tell me its poor value!


Edited by Paramedic - 05 Sep 21 at 7:45am
Back to Top
Sussex Lad View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jun 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 360
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 21 at 9:29am
Originally posted by eric_c

Are you from Worthing?
Did you mean WPNSa as distinct from Weymouth?
As for Hayling, vastly over-rated IMHO, have the Merlins forgiven them yet?
Terrible place, you might get a decent start line one day in a week when the tide happens to be slack.


Worthing? 

I have no idea about the HISC ability to hold an open but I'm sure you get my drift: Standards are inevitably declining as the numbers of experienced sailors declines. It's an issue for the sport and not the fault of individuals that perhaps only volunteer because "someone has got to do it". The class associations perhaps need to do more to ensure they get a worthwhile Nationals.

Solo's aside what's the average fleet size for classes these days anyway? So many minor (now) classes that still want champagne.  Wink

Edited by Sussex Lad - 05 Sep 21 at 9:50am
Back to Top
turnturtle View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 05 Dec 14
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2538
Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 21 at 11:38am
Lol - all this talk of nationals like they’re something generic

One thing for certain, one Solo nationals written into history as distinctly average blighted by an unfortunate weather pattern, will soon be eclipsed by another one that gets reported as epic, with battles throughout the fleet as the depths talent is truly reflective of variety of skill levels sailing can attract.

I’ve enjoyed some nationals more than others - where I haven’t it’s usually been circumstances outside of the actual sailing.

We know when we sign up what standard of sailing and racing to expect - I’ve come second from last in one, 4th out of 170-odd at another. Both taught me a lot.


Back to Top
davidyacht View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 29 Mar 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1345
Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 21 at 2:23pm
I think you needed to be there to decide whether the event was good, bad, or average … I think I would award the event 7 or 8 out of 10 overall.  If you weren’t there please don’t diss MBSC.  If you were then you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

Be very careful where you go with charging for nationals, with a very few exceptions (mainly MBSC) the provision of National Championships depends on a symbiotic relationship between Clubs and Classes and the only way these events work is by the free provision of time by members.  If this goodwill disappears so will the provision of National Championship venues.

I PRO the odd regatta and after each event I consider how we could improve the delivery, I would be extremely surprised if any other PROs do not do the same.  I am pretty sure that all PROs come from a racing background and are driven by a desire to put back in what we have taken out, most successful dinghy racers I know pay an anal attention to detail, which no doubt extends to race management 
Happily living in the past
Back to Top
Woodman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 14 Aug 19
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 19
Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 21 at 2:48pm
The attendees I know felt it was difficult conditions but RO was indecisive, either should have let the race time out or shorten as it was a drift by the end. But that was from a sailors perspective and not in the race box.
Back to Top
eric_c View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 21 Jan 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 382
Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 21 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

I agree, I'm reasonably experienced in running champs albeit from the association side rather than the club side. What I would say is that the club has always - quite rightly - made by far and away the lions share from the event. The association looks to basically not make a loss.

What irks me is the perception that £250 entry fee is poor value, something usually put about by people who have more idea about whats under the surface of mars than they do about the amount of unpaid hours that get put in by volunteers. It doesn't excuse a poor reception from the club or poor race management (Though most potentially controversial decisions such as marginal days are shared with the association) but just think how much more it would cost if every volunteer charged minimum wage per hour - then tell me its poor value!

The amount of effort/time/cash that goes into something is no guarantee of it providing a given amount  of 'value' to the consumer.
If the experience of taking part in the racing is not satisfactory to the 'marginal' participants, they will moan and/or not cme back.  We all have a lor of choices as to how we can spend a few hundred quid and 'n' days holiday on our sailing. We can choose another class, do other events, spend it on coaching, buy a second boat, do a Nielsen holiday etc etc.
There is a huge pool of club sailors in the Uk who are not going to your Nationals because it's not what they choose to spend thier time and cash on. That's not a problem if you have a sufficient pool of happy Nationals entrants. But clearly a lot of classes are not really in that position.
Of course a lot of volunteers may be quite happy spending their time not adding huge value to the competion experience, because they are enjoying being involved with their club. If I do some washing up in the galley after the prizegiving, or help organise trailer parking that's not a cost you have to justify or account for. IF we had to pay everyone for every bit of effort, we'd have to use such resources more efficiently. What is the monetary 'value' of taking part in a Nationals? If you're coming in the top 3 and generating kudos for your sail loft, possibly it's a much bigger amount than if you're going to come in the bottom quarter, same as you did last time and the time before.Obviously the cost of taking part is more, sometimes very much more than the entry fee, but that fee is one of the first things people see when they consider an event. If you're getting irked by potential customers baulking at your price tag, it might be time for a quiet think about your market. If you charge Tesla money, there's no point getting upset when the Nissan Leaf pulls more punters.Likewise if I see the Fastnet Race costs too much to enter, no point me moaning, I'd be better spending my money and time elsewhere. They chose their market and it might not include me! I doubt RORC get 'irked' by me saying it costs too much.
Back to Top
Sailerf View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 26 Feb 17
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 38
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sailerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 21 at 2:14pm
Carry on old chap! If we all carry on doing what we have been doing we will know in advance what the outcome will be. £250 for entry looks like the cheap bit now days, just getting there and getting accommodation is likely to be much more panful. You are unlikely to ever satisfy the person grumbling its £10 to much. Make a great events and people will be happy to pay. 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 21 at 7:13am
See - it’s not just the Solo nationals!
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/241489/99th-Star-World-Championship-Day-3
It has taken until late afternoon on day 3 to get the first race in (in barely sailable wind) and then 8am start the next day. No one can control the weather, but I’ve done so many events like that.
Back to Top
eric_c View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 21 Jan 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 382
Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 21 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by A2Z

See - it’s not just the Solo nationals!
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/241489/99th-Star-World-Championship-Day-3
It has taken until late afternoon on day 3 to get the first race in (in barely sailable wind) and then 8am start the next day. No one can control the weather, but I’ve done so many events like that.

Looks like they are doing their best to make the racing happen.
The risk of several days unsailable weather is something the ordinary amateur sailor needs to consider when assessing the value offered by a regatta. I suspect climate change is already making weather patterns less reliable. I believe it's been known for a Nationals to lose a day's racing, yet the little club just down the coast manages to run its evening races..

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy