Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Solo Nationals |
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Any number you like, depending on how you choose to add it up. You might include just the direct additional costs such as boat fuel and trophies. At the other extreme, what the market will bear. add in a bit of sponsorship and the entry fees are sure to go up! Seriously, it's very variable, and it's not always clear where the money's going, between the host club, class association and any other parties such as the town council who may be charging for the sea front or whatever. I've had some slight involvement with totally commercially run events. £500 a day for a staffed committee boat, couple of hundred for a mark-laying RIB.Our club boys get some free beer and food. They wouldn't be taking time off work to do it if the club wasn't doing well out of it. Don't forget that there are more man hours of admin than racing, meetings between club and CA, entries to deal with, all sorts of preparation. Some stuff in both Club and CA is probably never really split between the champs and the rest of the year, much of it is never accounted for at all. Superficially, a champs is extremely good for our bank balance, but we can only do that once a year as an exercise in monetising the club's assets, very much including the human assets!. Either running a champs is part and parcel of the make-up of the club or it isn't and you can't create that from nowhere... But none of that reduces the need to give the paying punters good value. By the time the flags start breaking out, the costs are mostly fixed, the value is yet to be established.
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Paramedic ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 27 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 929 |
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I agree, I'm reasonably experienced in running champs albeit from the association side rather than the club side. What I would say is that the club has always - quite rightly - made by far and away the lions share from the event. The association looks to basically not make a loss.
What irks me is the perception that £250 entry fee is poor value, something usually put about by people who have more idea about whats under the surface of mars than they do about the amount of unpaid hours that get put in by volunteers. It doesn't excuse a poor reception from the club or poor race management (Though most potentially controversial decisions such as marginal days are shared with the association) but just think how much more it would cost if every volunteer charged minimum wage per hour - then tell me its poor value!
Edited by Paramedic - 05 Sep 21 at 7:45am |
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Sussex Lad ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 08 Jun 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 360 |
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Worthing? I have no idea about the HISC ability to hold an open but I'm sure you get my drift: Standards are inevitably declining as the numbers of experienced sailors declines. It's an issue for the sport and not the fault of individuals that perhaps only volunteer because "someone has got to do it". The class associations perhaps need to do more to ensure they get a worthwhile Nationals. Solo's aside what's the average fleet size for classes these days anyway? So many minor (now) classes that still want champagne. ![]() Edited by Sussex Lad - 05 Sep 21 at 9:50am |
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turnturtle ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Lol - all this talk of nationals like they’re something generic
One thing for certain, one Solo nationals written into history as distinctly average blighted by an unfortunate weather pattern, will soon be eclipsed by another one that gets reported as epic, with battles throughout the fleet as the depths talent is truly reflective of variety of skill levels sailing can attract. I’ve enjoyed some nationals more than others - where I haven’t it’s usually been circumstances outside of the actual sailing. We know when we sign up what standard of sailing and racing to expect - I’ve come second from last in one, 4th out of 170-odd at another. Both taught me a lot. |
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davidyacht ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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I think you needed to be there to decide whether the event was good, bad, or average … I think I would award the event 7 or 8 out of 10 overall. If you weren’t there please don’t diss MBSC. If you were then you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.
Be very careful where you go with charging for nationals, with a very few exceptions (mainly MBSC) the provision of National Championships depends on a symbiotic relationship between Clubs and Classes and the only way these events work is by the free provision of time by members. If this goodwill disappears so will the provision of National Championship venues. I PRO the odd regatta and after each event I consider how we could improve the delivery, I would be extremely surprised if any other PROs do not do the same. I am pretty sure that all PROs come from a racing background and are driven by a desire to put back in what we have taken out, most successful dinghy racers I know pay an anal attention to detail, which no doubt extends to race management
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Happily living in the past
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Woodman ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 14 Aug 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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The attendees I know felt it was difficult conditions but RO was indecisive, either should have let the race time out or shorten as it was a drift by the end. But that was from a sailors perspective and not in the race box.
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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The amount of effort/time/cash that goes into something is no guarantee of it providing a given amount of 'value' to the consumer. If the experience of taking part in the racing is not satisfactory to the 'marginal' participants, they will moan and/or not cme back. We all have a lor of choices as to how we can spend a few hundred quid and 'n' days holiday on our sailing. We can choose another class, do other events, spend it on coaching, buy a second boat, do a Nielsen holiday etc etc. There is a huge pool of club sailors in the Uk who are not going to your Nationals because it's not what they choose to spend thier time and cash on. That's not a problem if you have a sufficient pool of happy Nationals entrants. But clearly a lot of classes are not really in that position. Of course a lot of volunteers may be quite happy spending their time not adding huge value to the competion experience, because they are enjoying being involved with their club. If I do some washing up in the galley after the prizegiving, or help organise trailer parking that's not a cost you have to justify or account for. IF we had to pay everyone for every bit of effort, we'd have to use such resources more efficiently. What is the monetary 'value' of taking part in a Nationals? If you're coming in the top 3 and generating kudos for your sail loft, possibly it's a much bigger amount than if you're going to come in the bottom quarter, same as you did last time and the time before.Obviously the cost of taking part is more, sometimes very much more than the entry fee, but that fee is one of the first things people see when they consider an event. If you're getting irked by potential customers baulking at your price tag, it might be time for a quiet think about your market. If you charge Tesla money, there's no point getting upset when the Nissan Leaf pulls more punters.Likewise if I see the Fastnet Race costs too much to enter, no point me moaning, I'd be better spending my money and time elsewhere. They chose their market and it might not include me! I doubt RORC get 'irked' by me saying it costs too much.
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Sailerf ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 38 |
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Carry on old chap! If we all carry on doing what we have been doing we will know in advance what the outcome will be. £250 for entry looks like the cheap bit now days, just getting there and getting accommodation is likely to be much more panful. You are unlikely to ever satisfy the person grumbling its £10 to much. Make a great events and people will be happy to pay.
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See - it’s not just the Solo nationals!
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/241489/99th-Star-World-Championship-Day-3 It has taken until late afternoon on day 3 to get the first race in (in barely sailable wind) and then 8am start the next day. No one can control the weather, but I’ve done so many events like that. |
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Looks like they are doing their best to make the racing happen. The risk of several days unsailable weather is something the ordinary amateur sailor needs to consider when assessing the value offered by a regatta. I suspect climate change is already making weather patterns less reliable. I believe it's been known for a Nationals to lose a day's racing, yet the little club just down the coast manages to run its evening races.. |
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