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AC36 is over.
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ClubRacer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Mar 21 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

 

If foil development had reached maturity, I would agree that a one-design would help on costs. However, I believe they are still a long way on the development curve. The difference in foils between this cup and the last is quite big and may well be big again next time. Its good to see how these paths work out. 

Definitely. The foils were in my opinion the biggest difference in performance between the 2 boats with one being better in the light and the other in the breeze. Standardising them would be criminal to this being a "development class"

I feel something needs to be changed to ensure you don't have to lock your foils in before the regatta, give them freedom to change depending on wind conditions. This will even the racing up massively but may increase costs on development. I fear though changing them over isn't a quick process like it was on the old cats
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Posts: 237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 7:06am
It is confirmed. RYS with Ineos Team UK are the next Challenger of Record for AC37. The boats will be the AC75 for the next 2 cup cycles. Only 1 new AC75 may be built per team. There is a Nationality rule also.



Edited by Chris_H - 19 Mar 21 at 8:29am
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 7:14am
Interesting article on how AI was used by ETNZ, I’m sure with the Ineos links to F1 they did the same. Like all simulations the getting the starting parameters right is key, with all the data the four teams have the boats should become faster and hopefully closer matched, the variable be conditions on the day.
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tink View Drop Down
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 7:24am
Originally posted by Mozzy

Originally posted by tink

You not going to get more teams when the development is so expensive and speed difference can be so great if they’re not sailing in their ideal conditions. They need to be brought more one design and share data (like sail GP) if they’re going to attract more teams. 

Foil cant, rudder, pitch, heart rates, heading, course (leeway) are all shared publicly. It's been pretty open data wise. All down to 20hz. 

I think one design ruins the build up, nothing to really talk about, and makes all the boat look the same with no identity. This time there were large visual differences between sails, hulls and foils and even the way the teams crewed the boats that could be discussed. 

I also don't think development is off putting. The risk of the the whole concept failing and initial design cost and development for a new class is. 

But next cup other teams will know the class and design is proven. And they can just pinch a lot of the design off this cup. Back when the AC had lots of challengers, realistically only about 3 or 4 tops were doing it to win. That's the same as this cup. But other teams will pitch up if they can compete in the same arena.

Bermuda we had ETNZ, BAR and Artemis as serious challengers.  
Maybe not full one design but tighter limits on area and thickness so we don’t have heavy wind and light wind dogs 
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Posts: 219 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 9:33am
So how are they able to lock down the next TWO regattas to using the AC75?

Does this perhaps indicate that the next event will be a deed of gift regatta between the two teams with no one else involved? I don't see how else can they guarantee that there won't be a different winner at the next event who can then change the rules again.
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Posts: 237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 9:43am
Originally posted by ohFFsake

So how are they able to lock down the next TWO regattas to using the AC75?

Does this perhaps indicate that the next event will be a deed of gift regatta between the two teams with no one else involved? I don't see how else can they guarantee that there won't be a different winner at the next event who can then change the rules again.


Condition of entry to AC37  is that you agree to 2 cups in AC75's...

I am sure, if a new winner of AC37 took real exception after that match, then legals will be flying. Legals is part and parcel of the AC  ;-)

In my view, some class stability for the AC is required anyway, (and also to see where the current development goes) so 2 cup cycles in AC75's works for me and clearly for NZ and UK


Edited by Chris_H - 19 Mar 21 at 9:45am
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Posts: 219 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 9:50am
I completely agree with the sentiment, I just wonder how they could lock it down to prevent (say) Prada winning the next event then tearing up the agreement and switching back to 12 metres!

If the intent is that the next event is between INEOS and ETNZ that gives them control, and also explains why they are setting up a joint management company to run both events, to give each team security if the other wins
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Posts: 237 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 10:57am
[QUOTE=ohFFsake]I completely agree with the sentiment, I just wonder how they could lock it down to prevent (say) Prada winning the next event then tearing up the agreement and switching back to 12 metres!

If the intent is that the next event is between INEOS and ETNZ that gives them control, and also explains why they are setting up a joint management company to run both events, to give each team security if the other wins

[/QUOTE

Pure speculation, but you could make AC37 a pure DoG match between NZ and UK, and then a Challenger match for AC38. That would fix that
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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Posts: 219 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by Chris_H

 
Pure speculation, but you could make AC37 a pure DoG match between NZ and UK, and then a Challenger match for AC38. That would fix that
Which is exactly what I said to start with, two posts ago!  LOL
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Posts: 822 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 21 at 1:02pm
Pure speculation, but you tcould make AC37 a pure DoG match between NZ and UK, and then a Challenger match for AC38. That would fix that

You could, but there's a lot of economic benefit and spinoff from an AC series, and it would have been even (much) greater in the absence of covid with feeder series etc. I can't see any of those involved seeing a simple 2 way match as taking full advantage!
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