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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Feb 21 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Rupert


Inland and sea yardsticks. Job done for Laser whingers. On 1078, inland, they were a bit harshly done by. On the sea, it appears they were ok. Now, on 1100, on a lake they aren't too bad (in other words, I think it's a bit too nice, because I'm racing against them) but on the sea a bit of a bandit?


Careful Rupert, you'll be accused of suggesting salinity of the water effects displacement and the yardstick performance and joining me in the home for nutters.


So long as you don't start mentioning bubbles in the layup (which Lasers don't have, at least below the waterline) then I'm happy with boats floating higher. But it can't be more than a couple of mm, so it's more to do with design, I'd think.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 21 at 9:03am
It's got more to do with the Laser performance in waves imv, certainly at our club, being over 14 ft which is the magic cutoff for dealing with waves at our particular neck of the channel, that and by the lee sailing dead downwind in waves..
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 21 at 10:06am
Originally posted by epicfail

If you sail an old tub badly the py system won't help you - nor should it. I sail a 35 year old Europe that won't be as quick as a more recent example - plus I'm a bit rubbish and inconsistent. I race against a variety of  Solos, Lasers, Comets, Lightning 368 etc, I feel the py is about right for me - occasionally I beat some people, but the better helms are usually ahead. I have an incentive to improve both me and the boat, if I had a newer Europe perhaps I would be quicker. I have never sailed against another Europe. 

Having said that I am happy to see the Lightning loose a few points!

Hi MrEF,  have you looked at the 'UK Europe Sailors' Facebook page yet? We've got loads of really good resources on there, especially for owners of older boats (as most of the fleet are!).  Whereabouts do you sail?  It'd be great to see if there's an Open near you this year....
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 21 at 10:20am
Originally posted by iGRF

It's got more to do with the Laser performance in waves imv, certainly at our club, being over 14 ft which is the magic cutoff for dealing with waves at our particular neck of the channel, that and by the lee sailing dead downwind in waves..

A Laser is less than 14', 13' 9" LOA and only 12' 6" LWL (which is what matters)?
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Posts: 61 		Post Options Post Options   Quote epicfail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 21 at 1:45pm

Hi MrEF,  have you looked at the 'UK Europe Sailors' Facebook page yet? We've got loads of really good resources on there, especially for owners of older boats (as most of the fleet are!).  Whereabouts do you sail?  It'd be great to see if there's an Open near you this year....
[/QUOTE]

I keep an eye on the Europe FB page, I have asked a few questions and always get good replies. It's great to be part of the Europe class - very friendly and helpful. I intend to come to some events this year, I will learn a lot. Rather hoping that the Cotswold Open is on in April.


Edited by epicfail - 01 Mar 21 at 1:46pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 21 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


Originally posted by iGRF

It's got more to do with the Laser performance in waves imv, certainly at our club, being over 14 ft which is the magic cutoff for dealing with waves at our particular neck of the channel, that and by the lee sailing dead downwind in waves..

A Laser is less than 14', 13' 9" LOA and only 12' 6" LWL (which is what matters)?


Childhood memory says 13' 10 1/2" overall length, but where does the 12'6" number come from? Maybe without a person on board, as the stem isn't that raked.
Still nowhere near 14 feet. Maybe the inland handicap bias is because lots of people who can't roll tack sail them on lakes compared to people in Solos?
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 21 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by epicfail


Hi MrEF,  have you looked at the 'UK Europe Sailors' Facebook page yet? We've got loads of really good resources on there, especially for owners of older boats (as most of the fleet are!).  Whereabouts do you sail?  It'd be great to see if there's an Open near you this year....

I keep an eye on the Europe FB page, I have asked a few questions and always get good replies. It's great to be part of the Europe class - very friendly and helpful. I intend to come to some events this year, I will learn a lot. Rather hoping that the Cotswold Open is on in April.
[/QUOTE]

Excellent!!!!  Just making sure that a fellow Europista was in touch with the Class Cool

Hopefully we'll be able to confirm Cotswolds soon, especially as POSH is now delayed.
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 21 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


Originally posted by iGRF

It's got more to do with the Laser performance in waves imv, certainly at our club, being over 14 ft which is the magic cutoff for dealing with waves at our particular neck of the channel, that and by the lee sailing dead downwind in waves..

A Laser is less than 14', 13' 9" LOA and only 12' 6" LWL (which is what matters)?


Childhood memory says 13' 10 1/2" overall length, but where does the 12'6" number come from? Maybe without a person on board, as the stem isn't that raked.
Still nowhere near 14 feet. Maybe the inland handicap bias is because lots of people who can't roll tack sail them on lakes compared to people in Solos?

From Wikipedia, not the most reliable source TBF but getting a number for a Laser's LWL is difficult. www.lasersailingtips.com gives the tigers as LOA 4.23/13' 10.5" LWL 3.82/12' 6" which agrees with your memory and makes me happier with the LWL being accurate. 

OTOH World Sailing describe the Laser (on their "The Laser - A History Lesson page) as a "4.19m long, 56.7kg hiking dinghy". LOA is easy to measure, LWL is probably something only known to BK. Either way it's a hell of a lot less than 14' (so WTF can't I keep up with the buggers in the Blaze  Angry)
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 21 at 4:24pm
Sam - if you cannot beat a Laser on the water in a Blaze then its not a handicap issue mate "its a you issue"  Wink
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 21 at 4:35pm
Maybe the Blaze is flatter and wider; more wetted area?

For all the detractors, Laser do seem to be very efficient over a wide wind range. Non wiring flat water I'm level pegging them on the Contender.

I'm not getting into PY because I don't care anymore, especially since COVID layoff. I simply want to go sailing again and put all the bike miles leg and cardio fitness  I've done from home to good use.

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