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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Britannia
    Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 5:05pm
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-luna-rossas-jimmy-spithill-questions-umpires-call-in-prada-cup-loss-to-ineos-team-uk/OYMYFWEM2LKTXSL7NLGZBCTNOM/
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Posts: 822 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 5:19pm
Protestor disagrees with their protest being rejected shock!

Not sure I'd attach too much significance to Spithill disagreeing with the result.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 5:23pm
Explains the rule apparently breached, to do with safety zones.
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Posts: 789 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by PeterG

Protestor disagrees with their protest being rejected shock!

Not sure I'd attach too much significance to Spithill disagreeing with the result.

If you sign up to yellow card and posible DSQ for non performance enhancing rule violations the measures didn’t spot you have to sign up to the umpires decisions.
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ClubRacer View Drop Down
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Posts: 210 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Explains the rule apparently breached, to do with safety zones.

In my opinion the closest points of contact had Prada not luffed at the last minute would have been Ineos Transom to Prada port side foil. This would mean they would have had to have been within 2 meters of Ineos to get a penalty. To me they looked miles off of that. 
 




Edited by ClubRacer - 24 Jan 21 at 5:59pm
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NickA View Drop Down
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Posts: 784 		Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 6:36pm
So simple port / starboard but with a requirement to give safety room rather than just not hit.

seems Luna Rossa did their best to force a penalty by bearing off, but if they'd not borne away, then they'd have passed further behind Brittania and if they'd borne off more would have slowed down and still passed behind Brittania.  That "avoiding" swerve at the end was surely theatrical.  I'm with the judges on this one.
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Posts: 121 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old bloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 7:22pm
LR have tried at least 3 protests by waving their bow towards the windward boat. They were all called no foul and really looked highly speculative and I would almost think worth a rule 2 fair sailing counter protest. I thought the bear away protest was in the same league, manufactured and couldn't have hit him if he tried
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ClubRacer View Drop Down
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Posts: 210 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 7:40pm
They are perfectly entitled to bear away in an attempt to gain some distance as they are ROW boat (as long as they give Ineos time to keep clear which they did)


The luffing earlier in the race was a little tougher to call from the camera angles we saw but at one point it looked pretty close to Ineos not keeping clear. You can see at the start when Ben went to swap sides, had Jimmy kept going up they would have had them banged to rights as Scott wouldn't have been able to see them clearly from where he was on the starboard wheel and not kept clear. 

Later in the race was also marginal 2:22:20 in the link below. LR luffed and ben was a good 3 seconds off responding which in my opinion was a little slow. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8--jRxcXgM&ab_channel=America%27sCup

Don't forget this is match racing. The whole aim is to finish ahead of your opponent and it has always been a key strategy to force them into a foul to get some distance between them, Jimmy isn't doing anything which we've not seen in every Americas cup already 



Edited by ClubRacer - 24 Jan 21 at 7:45pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 8:03pm
So, you are passing clear ahead on the angles being sailed. The ROW boat can bear away provided the give way boat has time to keep clear. But where can the give way boat keep clear to? If they luff, they slow down, makes things worse. If they bear away they get closer, makes things worse. They are committed to passing, as would be clear ahead without the bear away, so can't tack without getting in the way. So surely the ROW bear away would have to be early enough for give way to have time to tack, duck or slow.
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ClubRacer View Drop Down
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Posts: 210 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 21 at 8:58pm
https://youtu.be/N8--jRxcXgM?t=9804

Using the graphics at the bottom, from the moment both boats are on their respective tack (port for ineos and starboard for prada) you can see Ineos lead dissolve rapidly. If you've ever got your self into that position you'l know the options are a massive luff to get behind them/ gybe to windward of them or keep going and hope you're clear.
If you've done the massive luff in a spinnaker boat (which I would say these things are closest too when they're screaming downwind) you'l know what the chances of success are. They had plenty of time to prep for a gybe if they needed it and had plenty of time to execute it even after Prada beared away. They took their chance on the cross and judged it just right. 

The rules upwind prevent you (ROW) bearing off towards another boat (GW) from the moment when GW is pointing behind your transom (dial down) but nothing stops you as ROW pointing at their transom first and then slowly heading up (dial up) as long as you while you're changing course you're giving them room to keep clear (basically the only option as GW without infringing is to tack) There was a good video of I think Nick Thompson doing it at an event a couple years back, I think Oman or possibly Princess sofia 
16.2 In addition, on a beat to windward when a port-tack boat is keeping clear by sailing to pass to leeward of a starboard-tack boat, the starboard-tack boat shall not bear away if as a result the port-tack boat must change course immediately to continue keeping clear. 

For the AC these are inverted for downwind. A ROW boat cannot luff to towards a GW boat that is already taking the ROW boats transom. But nothing stops you doing it the other way around (As Prada did) as long as it complies with 16.1 
16.1 When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear.
AC Rule only: 16.3 When sailing to a mark that is to leeward, a starboard-tack yacht shall not luff to a course that is above her proper course if at that moment the port-tack yacht that is keeping clear by sailing a course to pass to windward of her has to immediately change course to
continue keeping clear.


Edited by ClubRacer - 24 Jan 21 at 9:12pm
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